I don't think that loophole will tend to exist anymore - a lot of schools, now that they have gone to Web-based registration, won't actually charge you for classes until you actually register for them.

In other words, as soon as you get charged, you close a slot that someone else needs.

Mike



[This message has been edited by nako (edited 02-19-2003).]

...and as soon as you unregister, the slot opens, as it does with an airline seat being freed up.

Well, I am no longer in college and when I was they didnt even have computers til I was leaving.

I've been reading this post for a while and find it very interesting. There are merchants that would return an item on the same card type (e.g. VISA, MC, AMEX) but not necessarily the same card number. So you could intentionally buy an item on a mileage earning MC and return it on a non-mileage earning MC. There are ways to do it. However, leaving the ethical questions behind, what would happen if someone could prove that you did an otherwise legal transaction (i.e. exercising your consumer right or buying an item and returning it - unopened, unused and all) JUST for the purpose of getting miles:

1. Will the Airline cancel your FF account?

2. Can any civil actions be taken against you (can someone sue you?)

3. Can any criminal actions be taken against you? (Can you go to jail, is this a criminal fraud?)

Does anyone know the answers to these?? I can guess but I'd prefer not to as I do not know for a fact. Therefore if someone does know the law, do they have anything to say about this??


------------------
Hilton Diamond, CO Gold

The FT'er formerly known as "arawal"

I guess that is sort of like the whole bank of america money order thing... It stopped being able to be done all of a sudden.

I called and asked the CS dept. of that bank to see why they stopped letting miles be earned when you buy a money order. On numerous occasions, I was told that the bank never intended on doing that or allowing it, so they stopped it. They said they found a way to tag each transaction and were looking for anything USPS to make a determination as to whether or not a person bought stamps or something, or just a money order with the PIN card. They said the money order purchases would no longer earn people any miles but would not quantify exactly how and why this was the new rule. Their terms never said anything about it NOT being allowed and they still have nothing saying you cannot do this or why, but yet, it just stopped. No definitive answer and no real reasons.

However, they did say (and I quote low level CS on this one) "We don't want people to earn THAT MANY miles!..."

Hmmm, that's kinda weird too, don't you think?

Merchants, and banks and airlines, it seems, can do anything they want at any time. SO be it. So can we.

MM

Only question I have is when you have a combination purchase (you bought a couple of stamps with you're $1,000 money order) does the bank exactly know what you purchased, as to give credit for some, but not all of the transaction?

As far as returning merchandise for cash, I did get about $100 back by check from my dentist for some dental work I paid by credit card. After my insurance payment, I ended up over-paying. Not the easiest way to earn some free miles (going under the drill) but is possible.

although I have never been bummed out about drilling at the dentist, I think if you have to get drilling done, you DESERVE FF miles!

Good one!

I dunno about the bank calculations on the exact pennies or odd numbers. When I wrote and called and emailed (and still await replies with solid answers) I have also been asking them to better clarify HOW they calculate ANYTHING related to their miles. My whole letter is based on a thought that miles matter and if they have a vlaue, we need to know what it is, and the bank should clarify this or it is corrupt! Why do some rules apply and some not?

Seems like my whole Home Depot gig was nothing in comparison!
Dont need a college degree (miles or no for registering) to figure out that something's up and it aint pretty.

My $0.02 worth...when I worked for the charge card company, the act of repeatedly trying to use the charge card in place of cash transactions was called factoring. Scenario...if you are a cashier at the gas station, what's to prevent you from running your charge card through for the cash payments you were given and pocketing the cash? It's not really stealing, or so most people think. Unusual repeat transactions at the same merchant will probably get flagged for suspicious activity. The credit card companies do have policies against factoring. I think we all benefit occasionally from cash refunds on charge purchases but we are taking advantage of some poorly trained clerk. Those that have figured out which retailer's policies may be less enforced and taking repeated advantage of the situation are risking a permanent blot on their credit record.

Outoftown

I see your point about factoring and taking advantage of untrained clerks or stores. This also has something to do with why a lot of stores have a separate drawer for lottery transactions...

Home Depot, however, is most likely not necessarily involved in any such scheme and certainly does not intend for someone at the register on the returns desk to NOT know all the rules. In fact these returns people are usually the better trained ones there. But it was they who offered ME the cash... I was prepared to take the credit back onto my debit card upon returning said items I had already bought and earned miles for! I would have also taken a gift card for future use (which also would have thus yeilded those miles) but the guy said that since it was a debit card and they DO offer cash back on sales there, he could give me cash and it was just as easy--if not easier--to do so.

I guess I have to go back there and do it again--not necessarily to piss of the ethicists in here, but instead, to see for myself if that store MEANS to do this, and why they would want to? I may press the issue just ot find out a difinitive answer on this and thus, make a post revealing something as great and legit as say, the Jaguar thread has been! What an easy 10k, eh? Almost criminal!

But back to HD... What if THAT cash back thang is just their known policy and thus, it is a great thing for all of us?? What if they decided--based on some high-end company marketing scheme--that if people KNOW they can get cach back on some debit card returns, then this is what actually makes more of us choose to shop there rather than at the competition? (In my case, Loews was down the street, so lures are needed on a constant basis)

So if that were the case, they have fandangled their own numbers and stayed within some legal boundaries as far as we will ever know in order to lure people into their shop and make more money themselves!

I'm in and all for it!
MM

I will have to go check again and FACTOR in even more miles! There are more tiles to buy... and return.

It depends on how the merchant sends in the transaction. A store like Target, Wal-Mart etc. swipes your debit or credit card in the same register that tallies your order. The full description of your purchase can be captured by the card network and thus analyzed by your bank. other merchants, like my local PO, swipes your card in a different machine. So no detailed information is sent. All the network and thus my bank sees is I bought $x.xx of crap at XYZ Merchant.

So when the bank sees a $230.81 puchase at 7-11, did I have a jones for a major brain freeze and got 200 Slurpees? or did I buy 2 money orders? And, how many miles should I get?

Let's clarify one point - Home Depot refund. I just did it for a legitimate return of something I don't need. Yeah, while I was standing in the line for 15 minutes, I carefully read their store policy for refunds:

For refund with valid receipt (within 90 days),
credit card ---> original credit card
gift card ---> store credit
debit card/gift check/cash ---> cash

All other refunds without receipt ---> store credit.

Since my original purchase was on a credit card, my refund goes back to the same CC. But it is apparent a chain-wise policy to refund cash for debit card purchase --- if you are willing to stand in line for 15 minutes every time.

wow! ONLY 15 minutes!!! I saw a guy running out of my local HD cursing that he was going to KEEP his $30 item or give away rather than spend another 30 minutes in "Returns Hell!"

Home Depot cash for returning a purchase ? Sounds great. By the way, I live in Phx and as such, have 100 Home Depots within 5 miles of my house. There is never a line for returns in any of the HD's near me. Now the real question is whether I buy that huge JohnDeere riding mower for my 10x15 foot patch of grass? I dont think I could contain my smile when they gove me 4,990 cash back on my US AIR BofA card. The game continues.......