Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Oct 20, 2012, 7:00 am
#4096
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,325
Even if MH allows us to fly and SQ sticks by its word to honor, i wonder what the odds the third carrier will play nice? I already have a backup award just in case there are issues
Oct 20, 2012, 7:01 am
#4097
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
Oct 20, 2012, 7:13 am
#4098
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: All over
Programs: Most
Posts: 10,839
My point is that you have to be prepared for all different kind of scenarios. I never would suggest some inexperienced person to purchase a fare like this. (Based on the questions on this and other RGN threads there are lot of inexperienced flyers on FT)
Oct 20, 2012, 7:19 am
#4099
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 389
If this is really the SQ strategy, it seems like an absolutely bizarre choice. If they just straight-up canceled the tickets, at worst they might knocked for breach of contract; how is it wise for them to move on to fraud (or conspiracy to commit fraud)??
Oct 20, 2012, 7:35 am
#4100
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,259
Called MH in KUL, gave MH confirmation number (SQ ticket), asked to reconfirm and verify "good to travel", everything came back OK and reserved seat assignments. All looks good on CMT and TL.com and SQ.com. SQ.com, which used to pull an error, now pulls up all segments and permits seat assignments on SQ segments and meal requests (all segments) as well.
If MH is going to deny boarding, it's not showing up on the e-ticket.
If MH is going to deny boarding, it's not showing up on the e-ticket.
Oct 20, 2012, 9:20 am
#4101
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 1,921
One thing i just tried to read up on - ticketing experts correct me if i'm wrong:
With the Round 1 and 2 fares:
They were airline issued fares, hence only the plating carrier had responsibility.
Example: Korean BKK-LAX with TG feeder RGN-BKK-RGN. KE published the fare and would have had an agreement with TG to run this feeder for a fixed amount, let's call it $200.
No matter what - KE would have had to pay TG the fixed $200 bucks so TG couldn't have cared less, they would've gotten their money and that was that. Therefore TG wasn't about to go cancelling 180 stock tickets. Remember: they DID threaten to cancel/cancel it on their own 217 stock.
With the YY fares in Round 3 - all the airlines providing service take a cut based on the NUC and distance flown etc. IATA published this, hence no one airline had a side agreement with another on these tickets. Usually, the YY cake is huge, so everyone's happy. This time, it's just crumbs, so ANY or ALL airlines involved will try to pull the cancel stunt, and it really does NOT matter who the plating carrier is, you would choose based on the operating carrier's history of honoring fares like this.
So if my understanding is correct: On a jumbo fare - if it's a published fare by an airline, then the plating carrier makes a difference. If it's a YY fare - it matters not.
Does it make sense? That's what I could gather, but if someone has a better grasp of it, please correct me.
With the Round 1 and 2 fares:
They were airline issued fares, hence only the plating carrier had responsibility.
Example: Korean BKK-LAX with TG feeder RGN-BKK-RGN. KE published the fare and would have had an agreement with TG to run this feeder for a fixed amount, let's call it $200.
No matter what - KE would have had to pay TG the fixed $200 bucks so TG couldn't have cared less, they would've gotten their money and that was that. Therefore TG wasn't about to go cancelling 180 stock tickets. Remember: they DID threaten to cancel/cancel it on their own 217 stock.
With the YY fares in Round 3 - all the airlines providing service take a cut based on the NUC and distance flown etc. IATA published this, hence no one airline had a side agreement with another on these tickets. Usually, the YY cake is huge, so everyone's happy. This time, it's just crumbs, so ANY or ALL airlines involved will try to pull the cancel stunt, and it really does NOT matter who the plating carrier is, you would choose based on the operating carrier's history of honoring fares like this.
So if my understanding is correct: On a jumbo fare - if it's a published fare by an airline, then the plating carrier makes a difference. If it's a YY fare - it matters not.
Does it make sense? That's what I could gather, but if someone has a better grasp of it, please correct me.
Oct 20, 2012, 12:30 pm
#4102
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,903
For those of you who have decided to take the plunge and look or book a positioning flight from the USA, how are you doing this?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
Oct 20, 2012, 12:50 pm
#4103
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
For those of you who have decided to take the plunge and look or book a positioning flight from the USA, how are you doing this?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
Oct 20, 2012, 12:56 pm
#4104
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,470
For those of you who have decided to take the plunge and look or book a positioning flight from the USA, how are you doing this?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
I believe someone mentioned earlier in the thread that there is now a new CX flight from HKG-RGN
Oct 20, 2012, 12:58 pm
#4105
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,854
It will come December when Malaysian Airlines joins OneWorld. However, award bookings are not available until it does.
Oct 20, 2012, 1:02 pm
#4106
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,118
For those of you who have decided to take the plunge and look or book a positioning flight from the USA, how are you doing this?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
One way tickets seem outrageous so I am looking at miles
OW is 37,5K, so is UA for miles. LM is 32,5K if booked regularly.
Any suggestions?
Dragonair (subsidiary of CX) starts service on January for oneworld ... not sure what other options there are currently (I don't see any flights by other member airlines, but I could be missing one), but QR and MH have flights as well whenever they eventually join.
Oct 20, 2012, 1:25 pm
#4107
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: YYC
Posts: 215
Oct 20, 2012, 1:26 pm
#4108
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: YYC
Posts: 215
You can always fly revenue to Hawaii and then (on UA anyways) a one-way saver reward in J from HNL-RGN is 37.5k. I'm not sure about the other alliances, though.
Oct 20, 2012, 1:36 pm
#4109
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Earth
Programs: AA EXP, AS MVP, UA*S, SPG G, IHG P
Posts: 35
data point
Data point of flights taken, for those concerning M and S
Arriving RGN: transfer flights do not need a transit visa. Just go upstairs to the second floor, follow the transfer sign to the gate to get your boarding pass. Even if I already checked in online, I have to get a new boarding pass.
Leaving RGN:
M issued boarding pass with no problem.
Arriving KUL/SIN:
S agent said they cannot issue boarding passes for me because fare error, and told me if I wanna continue my trip, I have to buy another ticket. But I insisted that there's no written notification before departure and no sufficient reason to refuse my boarding. Then, I pulled out the EU regulations. Finally, I got the boarding passes and good to go!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
I think my mistake was to call S to request seat assignment and FFP no upate, thus it triggered some notifications in their systems.
Arriving RGN: transfer flights do not need a transit visa. Just go upstairs to the second floor, follow the transfer sign to the gate to get your boarding pass. Even if I already checked in online, I have to get a new boarding pass.
Leaving RGN:
M issued boarding pass with no problem.
Arriving KUL/SIN:
S agent said they cannot issue boarding passes for me because fare error, and told me if I wanna continue my trip, I have to buy another ticket. But I insisted that there's no written notification before departure and no sufficient reason to refuse my boarding. Then, I pulled out the EU regulations. Finally, I got the boarding passes and good to go!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
I think my mistake was to call S to request seat assignment and FFP no upate, thus it triggered some notifications in their systems.
Oct 20, 2012, 1:47 pm
#4110
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Data point of flights taken, for those concerning M and S
Arriving RGN: transfer flights do not need a transit visa. Just go upstairs to the second floor, follow the transfer sign to the gate to get your boarding pass. Even if I already checked in online, I have to get a new boarding pass.
Leaving RGN:
M issued boarding pass with no problem.
Arriving KUL/SIN:
S agent said they cannot issue boarding passes for me because fare error, and told me if I wanna continue my trip, I have to buy another ticket. But I insisted that there's no written notification before departure and no sufficient reason to refuse my boarding. Then, I pulled out the EU regulations. Finally, I got the boarding passes and good to go!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
I think my mistake was to call S to request seat assignment and FFP no upate, thus it triggered some notifications in their systems.
Arriving RGN: transfer flights do not need a transit visa. Just go upstairs to the second floor, follow the transfer sign to the gate to get your boarding pass. Even if I already checked in online, I have to get a new boarding pass.
Leaving RGN:
M issued boarding pass with no problem.
Arriving KUL/SIN:
S agent said they cannot issue boarding passes for me because fare error, and told me if I wanna continue my trip, I have to buy another ticket. But I insisted that there's no written notification before departure and no sufficient reason to refuse my boarding. Then, I pulled out the EU regulations. Finally, I got the boarding passes and good to go!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm
I think my mistake was to call S to request seat assignment and FFP no upate, thus it triggered some notifications in their systems.
I wonder if this is because they haven't sorted out their position yet? So you were on the RGN-KUL-SIN-LHR-YUL ticket then, eh.