Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Oct 21, 2012, 1:35 am
#4171
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Have you considered how much extra expense would those seventeen tickets take out of that persons wallet? If you take your expected cost, then I wouldn't call that greedy...
Oct 21, 2012, 1:40 am
#4172
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,470
Why is everyone getting so hung up on 17 tickets? You said it yourself "when round 3 popped up" think about that. I've booked a total of 4 trips in 3 rounds attempted to book a total of 6. My goal is to fly at least 1 at most 2. 3 of the 6 overlap (kept finding better flights) 2 from round 2, the really cheap ones ~$100 was never able to book it by the time I tried. So first of all if you read just the last couple of days worth of posts you will see that the 17 ticket OP is down to 12 for his entire family over 3 rounds of these "sales". I am jealous, of his and his families ability to take the time needed to travel the world.
I wasn't trying to nail it to the big corporations I just wanted to go to Burma and prefer to fly business/first class. By round 2 wasn't going to book any more trips until I saw how cheap it could be, cheap enough to make a couple of trips into MRs on *A but was too late to book them. Round 3 where I ended up paying $1000 for one of the tickets which while a significant discount for international F I would hardly call that "free". I would have loved to have be able to get to top tier in all alliances flying international F/J all over the world. But even if I had the time even at these great prices of rounds 1,2 and 3 I would still not be able to afford to do that. Do I feel bad for airlines because "someone somewhere screwed up" 3rd time in 5 months on the same scale? nope. Nothing to feel bad about. Just hoping all of this uncertainty gets sorted before my 1st trip in 4 months.
I wasn't trying to nail it to the big corporations I just wanted to go to Burma and prefer to fly business/first class. By round 2 wasn't going to book any more trips until I saw how cheap it could be, cheap enough to make a couple of trips into MRs on *A but was too late to book them. Round 3 where I ended up paying $1000 for one of the tickets which while a significant discount for international F I would hardly call that "free". I would have loved to have be able to get to top tier in all alliances flying international F/J all over the world. But even if I had the time even at these great prices of rounds 1,2 and 3 I would still not be able to afford to do that. Do I feel bad for airlines because "someone somewhere screwed up" 3rd time in 5 months on the same scale? nope. Nothing to feel bad about. Just hoping all of this uncertainty gets sorted before my 1st trip in 4 months.
Hi all, just thought I'd share my emotions.
When round 3 popped up, I was sitting across the thread - even jumped in and landed a couple of Tix - though, I never hit the "submit" button. Positioning, getting home and a look around while there, meant it would be close to a $10K spend (for 2). We are not Biz FF's with bucket loads of miles/points to ease the cost burden. So sat back and watched you people scoop up the deals.
My first thoughts were, jealousy, lucky barstards, nail em, may all the luck in the world, be yours.
Then recently, I've read where someone has seventeen and knows of others who have even more Tix. I'm now thinking, you greedy fellows !
We all know this is/was a Mistake airfare. Someone somewhere screwed up. If every poster on this thread had a Tix, OK 2 Tix - a him and her, OK 4 Tix - him/her and 2 kids/friends, I'd be happy to wallow in the misery of a corporate giant - afterall, winners are grinners. These mighty aviation companies know how to screw us over at vacation and festive times of the year - they can take a bit of their own medicine.
But when our "Win" is blown out to the margins I'm seeing here, your not just winning, your holding them down and stomping on their heads.
I reckon that the greed shown by some people is going to get you all knocked out, in some way or another. No corporate giant is going to lay down and let $170K+ worth of premium capacity go to one individual for free. It's of a magnitude they cannot ignore.
As we are starting to see, once these companies "tool up" for battle, there are going to be some low blows, coming your way.
When round 3 popped up, I was sitting across the thread - even jumped in and landed a couple of Tix - though, I never hit the "submit" button. Positioning, getting home and a look around while there, meant it would be close to a $10K spend (for 2). We are not Biz FF's with bucket loads of miles/points to ease the cost burden. So sat back and watched you people scoop up the deals.
My first thoughts were, jealousy, lucky barstards, nail em, may all the luck in the world, be yours.
Then recently, I've read where someone has seventeen and knows of others who have even more Tix. I'm now thinking, you greedy fellows !
We all know this is/was a Mistake airfare. Someone somewhere screwed up. If every poster on this thread had a Tix, OK 2 Tix - a him and her, OK 4 Tix - him/her and 2 kids/friends, I'd be happy to wallow in the misery of a corporate giant - afterall, winners are grinners. These mighty aviation companies know how to screw us over at vacation and festive times of the year - they can take a bit of their own medicine.
But when our "Win" is blown out to the margins I'm seeing here, your not just winning, your holding them down and stomping on their heads.
I reckon that the greed shown by some people is going to get you all knocked out, in some way or another. No corporate giant is going to lay down and let $170K+ worth of premium capacity go to one individual for free. It's of a magnitude they cannot ignore.
As we are starting to see, once these companies "tool up" for battle, there are going to be some low blows, coming your way.
Oct 21, 2012, 2:25 am
#4173
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 267
@ in2it54
I do not travel for business and I have my low budget. I do need to travel at least 3 times a year to see my family. I can only travel only a certain period time of a year. Before coming to the miles business, all my saving money goes to airlines. Sometimes, I have to chew their freaking expensive prices they set. If I ever make a single mistake on the departure date or something I want to change on the ticket I bought, they charged me fees at least $150 + fare difference. Do they care for ripping off their customers? Of course they try to get every single penny into their pockets. Do they have a feeling for you?
What about their freaking delayed flights that caused trouble for your schedules? Asked them to compensate for the delayed flights? You know what they did, they sent me a freaking voucher and set an expire date on that voucher. If you do not use that voucher ontime, you freaking lose it. Another thing, flying with economy for long international flights, you are treated like hell. The foods most of the time sucks so much.
Of course I have no feeling for this mistake fare situation. All have to play by the same rule. No exception here. They or whoever they have partners in this business, they or/and their partners have to play by the same rule.
The one who booked more than 10 is greedy? That person has time to go or free from his work schedule. If he/she enjoys it, it is ok. Even flying in first class, you also face a certain amount radiation. Besides, the flying hours, the jetlag make you feel exhausted. There is no reason to call that person to be greedy. That person has to trade off his time and overcome his body exhaustion in order to fly for his booked tickets.
I do not travel for business and I have my low budget. I do need to travel at least 3 times a year to see my family. I can only travel only a certain period time of a year. Before coming to the miles business, all my saving money goes to airlines. Sometimes, I have to chew their freaking expensive prices they set. If I ever make a single mistake on the departure date or something I want to change on the ticket I bought, they charged me fees at least $150 + fare difference. Do they care for ripping off their customers? Of course they try to get every single penny into their pockets. Do they have a feeling for you?
What about their freaking delayed flights that caused trouble for your schedules? Asked them to compensate for the delayed flights? You know what they did, they sent me a freaking voucher and set an expire date on that voucher. If you do not use that voucher ontime, you freaking lose it. Another thing, flying with economy for long international flights, you are treated like hell. The foods most of the time sucks so much.
Of course I have no feeling for this mistake fare situation. All have to play by the same rule. No exception here. They or whoever they have partners in this business, they or/and their partners have to play by the same rule.
The one who booked more than 10 is greedy? That person has time to go or free from his work schedule. If he/she enjoys it, it is ok. Even flying in first class, you also face a certain amount radiation. Besides, the flying hours, the jetlag make you feel exhausted. There is no reason to call that person to be greedy. That person has to trade off his time and overcome his body exhaustion in order to fly for his booked tickets.
Oct 21, 2012, 2:56 am
#4174
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Silver; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,491
One thing i just tried to read up on - ticketing experts correct me if i'm wrong:
With the Round 1 and 2 fares:
They were airline issued fares, hence only the plating carrier had responsibility.
Example: Korean BKK-LAX with TG feeder RGN-BKK-RGN. KE published the fare and would have had an agreement with TG to run this feeder for a fixed amount, let's call it $200.
...
With the Round 1 and 2 fares:
They were airline issued fares, hence only the plating carrier had responsibility.
Example: Korean BKK-LAX with TG feeder RGN-BKK-RGN. KE published the fare and would have had an agreement with TG to run this feeder for a fixed amount, let's call it $200.
...
The only complication here is codeshares where marketing carrier may need to pay more than ticket revenue share to the operating carrier, this is governed by codesharing agreement T&Cs.
In case of airline owned fares it is easier to blame a specific airline (rather than non for profit IATA). Finally, it is not the ticketing airline which is guilty in my view but the airline who filed fares in its name.
For my round 1 KE plated tickets fare owner is OZ.
Oct 21, 2012, 3:34 am
#4175
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Hi all, just thought I'd share my emotions.
When round 3 popped up, I was sitting across the thread - even jumped in and landed a couple of Tix - though, I never hit the "submit" button. Positioning, getting home and a look around while there, meant it would be close to a $10K spend (for 2). We are not Biz FF's with bucket loads of miles/points to ease the cost burden. So sat back and watched you people scoop up the deals.
My first thoughts were, jealousy, lucky barstards, nail em, may all the luck in the world, be yours.
Then recently, I've read where someone has seventeen and knows of others who have even more Tix. I'm now thinking, you greedy fellows !
We all know this is/was a Mistake airfare. Someone somewhere screwed up. If every poster on this thread had a Tix, OK 2 Tix - a him and her, OK 4 Tix - him/her and 2 kids/friends, I'd be happy to wallow in the misery of a corporate giant - afterall, winners are grinners. These mighty aviation companies know how to screw us over at vacation and festive times of the year - they can take a bit of their own medicine.
But when our "Win" is blown out to the margins I'm seeing here, your not just winning, your holding them down and stomping on their heads.
I reckon that the greed shown by some people is going to get you all knocked out, in some way or another. No corporate giant is going to lay down and let $170K+ worth of premium capacity go to one individual for free. It's of a magnitude they cannot ignore.
As we are starting to see, once these companies "tool up" for battle, there are going to be some low blows, coming your way.
When round 3 popped up, I was sitting across the thread - even jumped in and landed a couple of Tix - though, I never hit the "submit" button. Positioning, getting home and a look around while there, meant it would be close to a $10K spend (for 2). We are not Biz FF's with bucket loads of miles/points to ease the cost burden. So sat back and watched you people scoop up the deals.
My first thoughts were, jealousy, lucky barstards, nail em, may all the luck in the world, be yours.
Then recently, I've read where someone has seventeen and knows of others who have even more Tix. I'm now thinking, you greedy fellows !
We all know this is/was a Mistake airfare. Someone somewhere screwed up. If every poster on this thread had a Tix, OK 2 Tix - a him and her, OK 4 Tix - him/her and 2 kids/friends, I'd be happy to wallow in the misery of a corporate giant - afterall, winners are grinners. These mighty aviation companies know how to screw us over at vacation and festive times of the year - they can take a bit of their own medicine.
But when our "Win" is blown out to the margins I'm seeing here, your not just winning, your holding them down and stomping on their heads.
I reckon that the greed shown by some people is going to get you all knocked out, in some way or another. No corporate giant is going to lay down and let $170K+ worth of premium capacity go to one individual for free. It's of a magnitude they cannot ignore.
As we are starting to see, once these companies "tool up" for battle, there are going to be some low blows, coming your way.
There will be plenty of people that state it is perfectly ok to buy as many as you want, or its the overall volume whether from 5000 people buying 1 or 100 people buying 50. However, I agree with you, the absolute gluttony exhibit by a few is outrageous, IMHO. But, no use in even bringing it up, it won't stop the gluttony whether this time or next time or the next 100 times.
Sheesh.
Oct 21, 2012, 3:47 am
#4176
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
Jesus - can we PLEASE bury the 17 ticket conversation? It was stated multiple times by the poster of that number that it's across all three rounds and involves several people, i.e. he BOOKED those but not necessarily for HIMSELF. A family of four going three times to Burma is 16 tickets; bring an aunt and it's (gasp!) 20. Jeebles gebeebles!! Get the greed police out! Hoarders at the gate!!
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
Might want to check your calculations.
Oct 21, 2012, 3:48 am
#4177
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Jesus - can we PLEASE bury the 17 ticket conversation? It was stated multiple times by the poster of that number that it's across all three rounds and involves several people, i.e. he BOOKED those but not necessarily for HIMSELF. A family of four going three times to Burma is 16 tickets; bring an aunt and it's (gasp!) 20. Jeebles gebeebles!! Get the greed police out! Hoarders at the gate!!
Besides, nobody wants a family with little kids in the F cabin.
Oct 21, 2012, 3:49 am
#4178
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
Struck a nerve? We have people reprimanding others for booking these tickets and trying to fly without being "seasoned" experts. Yet, we have others that book their entire family on these flights. I can't imagine getting stranded from a denied boarding with my wife, 2 young kids, and auntie in tow.
Might want to check your calculations.
Might want to check your calculations.
Oct 21, 2012, 3:53 am
#4179
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
To play the devils advocate, if I assume that the airlines are willing to go along with this deal as long as it is a one time experience for an elite and a plus-1, then stretching it to multiple trips with multiple family members is taking it too far and abusing the deal. I know I may be making a wild assumption, but that's what this thread is all about, eh?
Besides, nobody wants a family with little kids in the F cabin.
Besides, nobody wants a family with little kids in the F cabin.
Depends on the kids and the parents. I seem to have avoided that stigma so far - compliments from both FAs and "phew, disaster averted" F pax. Hehe.But obviously I do agree with it.
Oct 21, 2012, 3:54 am
#4180
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,412
Jesus - can we PLEASE bury the 17 ticket conversation? It was stated multiple times by the poster of that number that it's across all three rounds and involves several people, i.e. he BOOKED those but not necessarily for HIMSELF. A family of four going three times to Burma is 16 tickets; bring an aunt and it's (gasp!) 20. Jeebles gebeebles!! Get the greed police out! Hoarders at the gate!!
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
now of course that's been explained... but imagine if you were the airline... imagine your PR campaign... all you have to do is say someone booked 17 tickets, and that's what sticks (and why a negative pr campaign by passengers won't get off the ground, you'd lose the general public as soon as that comment was published).
that same campaign by the airlines would say 'we even have passengers who booked so many tickets and can't even be travelled because they overlap! we are losing booking because seats are taken by these impossible itineraries'.
I'm not saying that to get back at anyone... just a couple of recent posts have highlighted exactly why there will be no negative pr implications from this for the airlines. (what you'd need is your frail grandmother needing to travel to a hip replacement who's had her flight cancelled, while she was sitting in her wheelchair at checkin
)
Oct 21, 2012, 4:06 am
#4181
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
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But this discussion stimulated a thought that I haven't seen in this thread yet. Are the people who are getting their tickets canceled traveling alone or with 1 or more on the same flight? My round 3 is all by myself and it has not been canceled. I wonder if any of the people who just booked a single ticket for themselves are getting cancelled?
Oct 21, 2012, 4:47 am
#4182
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Near the pole, at the beach, top of mountains, underwater, golfing
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Posts: 287
interesting isn't it? what has stuck in the minds of some people is that someone has bought 17 tickets.
now of course that's been explained... but imagine if you were the airline... imagine your PR campaign... all you have to do is say someone booked 17 tickets, and that's what sticks (and why a negative pr campaign by passengers won't get off the ground, you'd lose the general public as soon as that comment was published).
that same campaign by the airlines would say 'we even have passengers who booked so many tickets and can't even be travelled because they overlap! we are losing booking because seats are taken by these impossible itineraries'.
I'm not saying that to get back at anyone... just a couple of recent posts have highlighted exactly why there will be no negative pr implications from this for the airlines. (what you'd need is your frail grandmother needing to travel to a hip replacement who's had her flight cancelled, while she was sitting in her wheelchair at checkin)
now of course that's been explained... but imagine if you were the airline... imagine your PR campaign... all you have to do is say someone booked 17 tickets, and that's what sticks (and why a negative pr campaign by passengers won't get off the ground, you'd lose the general public as soon as that comment was published).
that same campaign by the airlines would say 'we even have passengers who booked so many tickets and can't even be travelled because they overlap! we are losing booking because seats are taken by these impossible itineraries'.
I'm not saying that to get back at anyone... just a couple of recent posts have highlighted exactly why there will be no negative pr implications from this for the airlines. (what you'd need is your frail grandmother needing to travel to a hip replacement who's had her flight cancelled, while she was sitting in her wheelchair at checkin
)Same thing for sq if they are deying boarding or making excuses. It will just create so much bad taste and negative feelings from any regular folks. Imagine hearing on the news that an airline denied boarding to passengers, stranding them despite having a confirmed tickets, standing them in the middle of their trip. The airline will not likely get much sympathy, no matter how much that tickets costs, or how it was paid for.
We all know that airlines tickets prices are variable, even the regular non frequent travelers. Because of that variability, most people naturally assume that it is ok to buy at different prices. So the regular folks that have been abused after years of overcharging by the airlines will not feel bad for the airline company losing a few dollars to some f travelers that was succesful in booking a cheap fare.
The only people that will likely be jealous Are fellow ft that missed the deal. I am guilty as well when i hear good deals passing by, and that is just a natural instinct from everybody, from the ft to the "regular" folks. Normal folks ( people that are not reading this, not on flyertalk) will not care that sq or lx had to transport some passengers in f, losing money doing it.
Most of their reaction hearing any story like this will be:
1. What? You can book f for that cheap?
2. How can i get on the deal?
3. So what if The airline lose a little of money? Unless it is a huge amount ( which is very relative) then it will not change anything.
4. The passengers are stranded? Wow that change eveything. The company is "bad".
5. I did not know that it can be booked
6. If it can be booked, and they received tickets, they should be allowed to fly.
Even in case of force majeure, act of god, even if you can argue that it is not the airline responsibility to carry the passengers due to x problems, any story that depicts the airline as the "bad" guys will stick.
That is how most non frequent travelers will think. What happened before with the volcano cancelations demonstrated that.
Sq can try to twist the pr as much as they want, but it is a natural uphill battle.
Their only intentions are to scare people, non regular travelers to cancel the tickets. That will reduce their exposure. For most people, the prospect of being stranded in a foreign country scared them more than anything, and they might cancel.
The reason why they are scared in arguing with the airline are because they do not know the forces at play. That is why it is good to discuss all option, eu, dot, cta , star alliance rules, etc.. It may not stick, but it may empower them to argue back at the airport counter, delaying staff and other passengers in the process. We do not have to be right, same as sq or lx when they try to cancel or bully us, they do not have to be right.
Imagine that other normal travelers witness the scene...
It is just simpler for the airline to bury the story, honor the fare, than blow it out of proportions. They do not want these type of stories on the news. It is just simpler to avoid bad pr and potentially negative sentiments from the general public, to avoid potential more regulations a la dot.
Last edited by globaltravelers; Oct 21, 2012 at 5:16 am
Oct 21, 2012, 5:13 am
#4183
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 989
May I just point out the obvious. Airlines can say Round 1 was a mistake. Round 2, and now Round 3? I would consider it gross negligence on their part and although I have a back up plan booked with miles on TG's new A380. I am still planning on taking them to court if my flights are cancelled. I'm not a lawyer, but I dont see how airlines can explain round 2 and now round 3 as mistakes, even placing the blame on IATA is no excuse.
Oct 21, 2012, 5:30 am
#4184
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,932
I've never had a problem with my kids in F or biz either. But we have all heard screaming on an airplane.
But this discussion stimulated a thought that I haven't seen in this thread yet. Are the people who are getting their tickets canceled traveling alone or with 1 or more on the same flight? My round 3 is all by myself and it has not been canceled. I wonder if any of the people who just booked a single ticket for themselves are getting cancelled?
But this discussion stimulated a thought that I haven't seen in this thread yet. Are the people who are getting their tickets canceled traveling alone or with 1 or more on the same flight? My round 3 is all by myself and it has not been canceled. I wonder if any of the people who just booked a single ticket for themselves are getting cancelled?
You have an interesting point on the multiple vs solo traveler. But I don't think the poster who got a runaround from SQ in SIN had companions... in fact, I would suspect DBing a single seat is easier/less political damage than a family.
Unless you're referring to advance cancellation - where I have no explanation.
Oct 21, 2012, 5:36 am
#4185
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: AU
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Posts: 14,412
May I just point out the obvious. Airlines can say Round 1 was a mistake. Round 2, and now Round 3? I would consider it gross negligence on their part and although I have a back up plan booked with miles on TG's new A380. I am still planning on taking them to court if my flights are cancelled. I'm not a lawyer, but I dont see how airlines can explain round 2 and now round 3 as mistakes, even placing the blame on IATA is no excuse.
So the airlines would say something like 'we recognise Burma is undergoing significant change and opening up, with great political and social change. But with that have come some unexpected problems, such as the devaluation of the currency which has given rise to spikes in conversion rates outside our control. This has had unintended consequences for our fares and ticketing. In the interests of the people of Burma we have decided to keep fares in local currency rather than price in US dollars. As a result of this there were three occasions where unexplained currency fluctuations allowed a number of bookings to be made which we cannot honour. Some intending customers have taken advantage of these mistakes by booking over a dozen tickets, and in some cases, for multiple overlapping itineraries they cannot complete. This is causing problems for our regular passengers trying to book flights over the holiday period who cannot secure seats because of multiple bookings. In the interests of all our passengers we have cancelled tickets issued during these periods and offered a full refund to all affected passengers. All other tickets issued outside these very small widows remain valid, and passengers affected by the mistake fares are able to rebook with confidence.'
This gets across the key points an airline wants: outside their control, pax with multiple bookings which cannot be used, taking up seats from others trying to get to where they need to go, offering a full refund.
Something like that is how I'd go. For more impact you could even add something in there about the mistake being spread by travel blogs used by professional frequent flyers.