Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Oct 20, 2012, 1:56 pm

#4111

drjameschen

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Earth

Programs: AA EXP, AS MVP, UA*S, SPG G, IHG P

Posts: 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

Interesting data point.

I wonder if this is because they haven't sorted out their position yet? So you were on the RGN-KUL-SIN-LHR-YUL ticket then, eh.

I think they are trying some ways, like denied boarding and cancel your tickets if you are convinced. If one do not have some background knowledge regarding this topic, one's ticket might be turned down!

Oct 20, 2012, 1:57 pm

#4112

CDKing

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: BOS/ORH

Programs: AS 75K

Posts: 18,325

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sykes

Because I needed UA miles, I booked a OW W fare (upgraded with a SWU) SFO-HKG for about $700, spent a few days there, then used 17,500 miles for a business class award ticket HKG-BKK-RGN on TG.

Similar here. BOS-HKG W fare for $800 and GPU to J. Booked HKG-BKK-RGN in Y on TG using 12.5K points. I was going to book J but not enough time to enjoy the A380

Oct 20, 2012, 3:40 pm

#4113

BigRedBears

Join Date: Jul 2011

Posts: 1,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjameschen

Data point of flights taken, for those concerning M and S

Arriving RGN: transfer flights do not need a transit visa. Just go upstairs to the second floor, follow the transfer sign to the gate to get your boarding pass. Even if I already checked in online, I have to get a new boarding pass.

Leaving RGN:
M issued boarding pass with no problem.

Arriving KUL/SIN:
S agent said they cannot issue boarding passes for me because fare error, and told me if I wanna continue my trip, I have to buy another ticket. But I insisted that there's no written notification before departure and no sufficient reason to refuse my boarding. Then, I pulled out the EU regulations. Finally, I got the boarding passes and good to go!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm

I think my mistake was to call S to request seat assignment and FFP no upate, thus it triggered some notifications in their systems.

Ok, so you pulled out EU regulations and which point did you refer to? You flight neither originated or ended in EU... Did you request 250 Euros for denied boarding?

Oct 20, 2012, 3:42 pm

#4114

Wozza2404

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: BHX

Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)

Posts: 7,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjameschen

Arriving KUL/SIN:
S agent said they cannot issue boarding passes for me because fare error, and told me if I wanna continue my trip, I have to buy another ticket. But I insisted that there's no written notification before departure and no sufficient reason to refuse my boarding. Then, I pulled out the EU regulations. Finally, I got the boarding passes and good to go!
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l24173_en.htm

...and this is why you shouldn't be flying these fares if you're inexperienced and/or are unsure of the regulations surrounding air transport.

Imagine if you weren't aware of the EU legislation, or didn't know how to present it to the staff in SIN. I think there are plenty of people holding these tickets who may be out of their depth on this one.

That said, I think I'd have played the DOT card rather than the EU one. Technically with the EU rules they could have given you 600 Euros and flown you back to RGN, or given you 75% of the fare you paid and flown you in Y.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:44 pm

#4115

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedBears

Ok, so you pulled out EU regulations and which point did you refer to? You flight neither originated or ended in EU... Did you request 250 Euros for denied boarding?

The EU regs apply sector by sector - but you would have needed an EU carrier for them to apply ex SIN to Europe - SQ would not have been within that category.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:46 pm

#4116

jfkeze

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Multiple locations

Programs: AAdvantage ExPlat LT Gold, BA Silver, Aegean Star Gold

Posts: 5,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

The EU regs apply sector by sector - but you would have needed an EU carrier for them to apply ex SIN to Europe - SQ would not have been within that category.

from the link...

This Regulation applies to:
passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the EC Treaty applies,

so yes, it would apply...

Oct 20, 2012, 3:47 pm

#4117

Wozza2404

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: BHX

Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)

Posts: 7,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

The EU regs apply sector by sector - but you would have needed an EU carrier for them to apply ex SIN to Europe - SQ would not have been within that category.

Carrier doesn't matter. So long as that flight lands in a country in which the EU treaty applies, then the regs are in force. Not they'd have done much good in this situation.

I've had 600 Euros out of EK in the past as a result of quoting these regs.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:47 pm

#4118

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wozza2404

Ok, let's lump me with this group, for either my or others' benefit. After all, nothing is worse than showing up waving the regs without actually UNDERSTANDING them, hehe. Can you clarify how this legislation protects the traveler who is in SIN? SQ can just say "off to Economy you go, and here's 75% of your 100 euros back. Thank you and enjoy." Right?

Further, if boarding is denied, is it the airline's choice or the passenger's to choose whether they want a flight to return to point of origin or rerouting to destination? The legislation appears unclear as to who gets the call on that.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:50 pm

#4119

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfkeze

the link provided was to a summary. The full text states (my bolding):

Article 3

Scope

1. This Regulation shall apply:

(a) to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;

(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:53 pm

#4120

Wozza2404

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: BHX

Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)

Posts: 7,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

Grey area.

The can't really put you in Economy on the same flight you were due to take, otherwise how do they explain why you're not in the seat you paid for? That would open them to legal action, I would have thought.

They can deny you boarding, fly you on the next flight, and then put you in Y if they can give a genuine reason why you can't have your F seat. Then you'd be due your 600 Euros and 75% of your fare if they lumped you in Y.

Personally I wouldn't be waving the EU regs, I'd be citing DOT and using the EU regs as an additional point.

If you clearly know what you are entitled to, they might just decide it's easier to fly you than to argue with you.

There are no clear cut answers yet.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:57 pm

#4121

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wozza2404

Imagine if you weren't aware of the EU legislation, or didn't know how to present it to the staff in SIN. I think there are plenty of people holding these tickets who may be out of their depth on this one.

let's nip all this in the bud before it gets out of hand...

if you weren't aware of the EU regs and weren't flying on an EU carrier it would make no difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

would make no difference if flying SQ. If SQ put you in coach then you could take legal action if you had a good cause to do so, like breach of contract. But you'd have to proce a contract in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wozza2404

No grey area at all unless flying an EU carrier.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:57 pm

#4122

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wozza2404

Right - that's what I thought.

I'm just looking out for those of us who are bypassing the US. Somewhat selfishly, I am not too concerned about my flight, as I don't believe there is a way that they would deny boarding to a family with a baby.

But then again...... better be edumacated. Who knows what trickery is afoot.

Oct 20, 2012, 3:59 pm

#4123

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

let's nip all this in the bud before it gets out of hand...

if you weren't aware of the EU regs and weren't flying on an EU carrier it would make no difference.

would make no difference if flying SQ

No grey area at all unless flying an EU carrier.

So are you saying SQ is not subject to any EU rules and therefore showing them EU legislation is like showing an apple to a hungry frog, i.e. completely nonsensical?

Oct 20, 2012, 4:01 pm

#4124

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

So are you saying SQ is not subject to any EU rules and therefore showing them EU legislation is like showing an apple to a hungry frog, i.e. completely nonsensical?

correct - the only time the EU regulations apply to SQ is for their flights leaving an EU (or Swiss) airport.

Oct 20, 2012, 4:01 pm

#4125

Wozza2404

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: BHX

Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)

Posts: 7,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

So are you saying SQ is not subject to any EU rules and therefore showing them EU legislation is like showing an apple to a hungry frog, i.e. completely nonsensical?

As stated in my previous post, EK have paid me 600EUR in the past for IDB. They're not an EU carrier.

EDIT: IDB was in DXB, before you ask.