Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

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Oct 20, 2012, 4:18 am

#4081

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazz81

It seems rather insane that MH and/or SQ could allow a passenger to turn up in RGN and be denied boarding without any advance notice of cancellation. Surely MH would be required to cancel their segments ahead of time. It seems utterly absurd to me that an agent would deny boarding at check-in if all segments were still CONFIRMED. and ticket not touched.

somewhere along the way there MUST be some notification of cancellation.

I would think there would be some sort of notification, at least notification on-line your ticket was not valid. It would be hard, as you say, to have a valid ticket, valid PNR and still not be allowed to fly.

Oct 20, 2012, 4:35 am

#4082

whimike

Join Date: Nov 2011

Location: West Coast, USA

Programs: Skywards Platinum

Posts: 3,747

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltahater

The DOT may only care if these tickets touch US soil and many of the MH/SQ do not

Thus the reason I stated CTA as well, I figured most people would realize I am talking DOT for flights that transit the US and CTA for those that don't. These organizations are very interested in deceitful and improper practices by the airlines.

Last edited by whimike; Oct 20, 2012 at 4:45 am

Oct 20, 2012, 4:45 am

#4083

whimike

Join Date: Nov 2011

Location: West Coast, USA

Programs: Skywards Platinum

Posts: 3,747

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazz81

It would make logical sense that if MH cancels they would notify SQ and SQ would be required to notify you.

Let us assume that MH denies boarding in RGN. Under what authority can they deny boarding? SQ plated the ticket and I would assume interline agreements somehow requires MH to fly or for SQ to find an alternative? In RGN would MH simply say they deny boarding, or would they offer the ability to pay the current fare RGN-SIN? If so, I just checked and the current J fare is US$650.

If MH cancels their legs prior to flight, what is SQ's requirement since they plated the ticket? I would think either they find an alternative or the itinerary at that point now starts at SIN and you could position to SIN and start the sequence in order since the order is now modified by the MH cancellation and SQ's inaction in doing something about it.

Oct 20, 2012, 5:19 am

#4084

greendx

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Posts: 1,470

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

they don't and they never have. you cannot compare economy and business or first class. economy fares for $1 plus taxes are a dime a dozen. find me one international long haul biz class ticket using multiple top tier airlines anywhere??

I recently booked a biz ticket from US to Europe round trip for under $1000 total. Ticket was bookable for under $900 with a slightly different routing. My 1-way F/J MH/SQ/LX/AA R3 ticket is ~$1000. There are/were 1-way tickets from Asia to North America in both F and J in the $1200-$2500 range. None of those are mistake fares. Neither are the $1(~$600 total) economy Europe-North America fares. So yes airlines do sell fares in all classes of service at all kinds of price points all the time.

Oct 20, 2012, 5:24 am

#4085

BrewerSEA

Join Date: Nov 2010

Location: Seattle

Programs: AS MVPG 75K

Posts: 2,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by greendx

Yep, there is a one-way Asia-U.S. fare in J/F for about $1500/$2000 that has been around for years available virtually every day without restrictions. It is not that much of a stretch to think an $800 J/F fare could also exist.

Oct 20, 2012, 5:29 am

#4086

stimpy

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Feb 1999

Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques

Posts: 34,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by greendx

I recently booked a biz ticket from US to Europe round trip for under $1000 total.

If you can find one of these for around Dec 3rd I'd appreciate it! I need that to cap off my round 3. I've been looking, but I think I may have to wait and hope for a sale.

Oct 20, 2012, 5:41 am

#4087

TGflyergirl

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Here

Posts: 1,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by whimike

If MH cancels their legs prior to flight, what is SQ's requirement since they plated the ticket? I would think either they find an alternative or the itinerary at that point now starts at SIN and you could position to SIN and start the sequence in order since the order is now modified by the MH cancellation and SQ's inaction in doing something about it.

I believe SQ has taken steps to block off the avenues you mention here.

For now anyway, I haven't heard MH say anything yet. It's all SQ's words so far - so let's see. I'm more than happy to lose my credibility if MH does the right thing, honors the legs and we never ever know about it. Fingers crossed.

Oct 20, 2012, 5:42 am

#4088

greendx

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Posts: 1,470

Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpy

If you can find one of these for around Dec 3rd I'd appreciate it! I need that to cap off my round 3. I've been looking, but I think I may have to wait and hope for a sale.

This was a thanksgiving fare to europe. Usually ~$1500 from US-Europe but there were some tickets to Dublin for under $1000. Unfortunately they were limited to the week of thanksgiving.

Oct 20, 2012, 6:07 am

#4089

bangkokiscool

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 1,259

So what's the best way to find out what MH will do without having to position to RGN?

PM appreciated, as my non FT relative is doing this very soon and the latest round of posts has me reaching for the tums.

Oct 20, 2012, 6:31 am

#4090

holtju2

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Nov 2002

Location: All over

Programs: Most

Posts: 10,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazz81

Surely MH would be required to cancel their segments ahead of time. It seems utterly absurd to me that an agent would deny boarding at check-in if all segments were still CONFIRMED. and ticket not touched.

somewhere along the way there MUST be some notification of cancellation.

There doesn't have to be. If the operating airline deems that the ticket is not issued correctly, they may refer you to the issuing airline/agent and ask you to pay for a walk up fare.

This happened to a friend of mine who was refused transportation by TG on another fare couple of years ago. TG was not issuing carrier but refused to transport the passenger.

Last edited by holtju2; Oct 20, 2012 at 6:39 am Reason: typo

Oct 20, 2012, 6:37 am

#4091

lokijuh

Join Date: May 2003

Location: Singapore

Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG

Posts: 4,867

Just trying to work out the MH situation. So SQ are saying if MH refuse carriage on SQ ticket they're not going fix it? It's their ticket, their responsibility? What if it's an MH ticket? Or an later carrier (eg IB ticket)?

Would be nice to have this all sorted out in advance, it's one thing to cancel things with plenty of notice (accompanied or not by a rude email), another to deny boarding when people turn up at the airport.

Oct 20, 2012, 6:37 am

#4092

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by holtju2

There doesn't have to be. If the operating airline deems that the ticket is not issued correctly, they may refer you to the issuing airlines and ask you to pay for a walk up fare.

This happened to a friend of mine who was refused transportation by TG on another fare couple of years ago. TG was not issuing carrier but refused to transport the passenger.

But what if the issuing carrier doesn't exist in that country? Ie UL or 9W in RGN?

Oct 20, 2012, 6:40 am

#4093

holtju2

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Nov 2002

Location: All over

Programs: Most

Posts: 10,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

But what if the issuing carrier doesn't exist in that country? Ie UL or 9W in RGN?

Pay walk up fare?

Oct 20, 2012, 6:43 am

#4094

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by holtju2

Pay walk up fare?

Oh, right, good point. That would suck indeed.

Oct 20, 2012, 7:00 am

#4095

OnAMileHigh

Join Date: Dec 2002

Location: Chicago

Programs: AA Exp Plat, UA 1K MM, DL Plat Hyatt Globalist, MGM Noir

Posts: 882

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryK

I found this conspiracy theory a little hard to believe.

Don't mess with TGFlyergirl and "The Bird".

Last edited by OnAMileHigh; Oct 20, 2012 at 7:10 am