Maybe he's Bob Dole?

LOL! Thats the funniest thing I heard all day! ^

Socrates,

I am curious why, in your professional opinion, the hotel is simply not willing to do anything. And Marriott customer service as well as the Marriott Corporate office have both said, in e-mail and on the phone, that Marriott Corporate will not get involved and that the hotel has the final say.

It sounds like the Manager of the Ren where I have been staying, just said something to try and make me feel better. Which it did. And I guess since this is an isolated incident, I will simply move on. But I just find it so odd, that no one will do anything.

Thanks.

I do believe the manager of the BR was just trying to be nice.....on your other question I do have my personal opinion on the matter but don't feel it would be appropriate to share (Both Customer Service & Guest Relations are empowered if they feel it's appropriate - standard proceedure is to first let the hotel attempt to resolve the situation)

Normally I hate when posters suggest disputing cc charges when it's best handled by the vendor's Customer Service.

In this case, however, the OP was overcharged for a massage plus he was overcharged for meals. He has an email from the hotel offering a 20% discount, so he even has proof of the latter. If he's still within the window for disputing the charge, that's what I'd do.

This weekend I contacted the office of the owner of the franchise and explained the situation. Yesterday I got a call from Mr. Marriott's Assistant again asking me if I was satisfied with their response that this issue had been closed. I told her I was not and she said she would ask for another response. I also got an e-mail back form the owners office stating that they too are asking the general manager to respond.

I got a response today. I was not overly satisfied with his tone, and he is refusing to do anything about the spa treatment, but he is returning the 25,000 points, so with that I am satisfied, it should not have taken this long, or been this much trouble.

He sounds like he is turning the situation around saying its my fault which annoys me. He also says he doesn't feel he should have to return the points as I checked out after 12:00pm which is checkout time.

His response is two full pages, and its a scanned image, so I can't cut and paste it here. But I will re-type the main points and snip out the filler below for all to see.

Opening:
Lots of filler removed. Basically, we have taken all of your claims seriously.
I have to interrupt as the regular massage was 826 Bhat less than a Thai Herbal Massage. I requested, and paid for the Thai Herbal Massage which states its 90 minutes.
As I interrupt again, a mid floor room with a view of nothing, and a normal sized room, hardly constitutes an upgrade. And again, the concierge specifically stated I would get said discount.

4. As you are aware, you already received a credit for 25,000 points against the total of 75,000 needed to stay. It was your choice to check out early and this actually represents a 33% discount on your total stay. As you decided to check out after 12:00, our check out time, we feel you were compensated appropriately.

More filler removed, basically stating, we value you and regret we were unable to satisfy you, and we will work harder in the future.

As a final gesture of recompense, I am prepared to offer you an additional 25,000 rewards points in return for your trouble and countless efforts in trying to get restitution of this most unusual resort experience.

I would like to sincerely apologize for now meeting your expectations in this instance and hope we can learn from this unfortunate situation and move on.

Respectfully Yours
General Manager

I guess this is all I am going to get, and I will simply take the loss on the massage and never go back there, and hopefully others will be warned as of this experience. I do feel better getting the points back. And to counter his, "you checked out late so thats why you don't get the second night back", well, don't Platinum members get late check out anyway? I am also assuming his words about tacking my criticism is referring to the dirty room. But one just thinks during off season, they would just put me in another room.

Oh well, thanks to every one who listened, and I am curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

Emanon,

I am late in replying to this string, your rant, but I have been meaning to for a while now, I have just been VERY busy lately, and I wanted to give you the due you deserve.

I know where you are coming from here. I have had similar issues when staying in Marriotts in the far east, and "semi" far east, though not in this hotel specifically. Like you, I had e-mail documentation, and like you, I felt like I was between an irresistible force and an immovable object. This happened to me twice. Both times there were a variety of problems while I was staying at the hotel, both times the hotel management was VERY RUDE (both while I was at the hotel, and after I returned home), and finally, both times the hotel management made a HUGE effort to lie, obfuscate, and refuse to compensate for the EXTENSIVE problems that I endured while staying at their hotels.

The Japan Incident - January 2003:
The first incident was during the first week of January 2003 and I was staying at a hotel which was branded and operated as Renaissance Tokyo Ginza at that time (subsequently, the hotel was closed for a time, while it went through a MUCH needed total renovation, and has reopened as the Courtyard Tokyo Ginza) with a package that included buffet breakfast every day (American style or Japanese style) of our stay. We had two rooms, and the problem started as soon as we checked into the hotel. The lobby was dingy. Sure, the hotel was what was pictured, but we quickly realized that the pictures were all of the chrome and shiny areas, such as chandeliers and mirrored areas and things that would not show wear and tear, but would look great on the website. It was quite clear that the whole hotel was very frayed around the edges, with the carpeting and window treatments in the rooms discolored and bleached from age and sun, and in some cases the hotel was much more than just frayed and discolored, it was downright FILTHY DIRTY!

We were exhausted when we checked in, so we swallowed hard and unpacked, cleaned up and went to sleep. Fortunately, although the beds were lumpy, the sheets were clean, even if the bedspreads were OLD, threadbare, and dirty, so we just threw them on the chair, and slept with the sheets and the extra blanket from the closet (not quite so bad).

The next morning the breakfast was absolutely inedible! Believe it or not, but very fortunately, there was a Denny's across the street (not there anymore), so for the next four days we ate at the world's most expensive Denny's (equivalent to about $30 per person for pancakes and eggs), even though we had breakfast included in our $240 per night rate (for TWO rooms!) We had been told that there was an Executive Lounge (equivalent to a Concierge Lounge) in the hotel, but it was nothing more than an unstaffed "niche" in the hallway across from the elevator bank on the top floor of the hotel, and there were no snacks, no fruit, no water, no nothing! The hotel advertised broadband Internet access, but it did not work, and no one in the hotel seemed to know how to make it work. While we were there we complained vociferously about everything, including about the breakfast being inedible, and the dirty rooms, but the hotel management felt that nothing was out of order, and felt that nothing was due. Finally, the hotel GM offered 5,000 points as compensation for us going each morning across the street to have breakfast at Denny's, but no money off our reservation rate at all.

When I got back to the US, I immediately made a complaint to Mr. Marriott's office and spoke with his assistant responsible for Asia/Pacific. Since FlyerTalk has rules about using names, please forgive me for lots of "she" and "he," but it is necessary in order not to break the rules. She listened intently, asked many questions, and said she would open an inquiry with the hotel. She was quick to inform me that as a Plat member that my complaint was to be taken very seriously. About one week later I got a call back from her, to let me know that the hotel GM had given 5,000 points already, and felt that nothing else was in order. I had told her that during the first call, and I told her of course that was not satisfactory. She said she would contact the hotel again, and she agreed that the hotel had not responded appropriately. To make a long story short, after TWO MONTHS of back and forth, in the end, the best she was able to do was to force the hotel to accept a further 25,000 point deposit to my account, for 30,000 total, which I informed her was nowhere near satisfactory for a five night stay of two rooms at approximately $240 per night (yen equivalent) for a total of well over $2,600 including taxes.

To cut to the chase, the hotel never agreed to offer anything more in compensation, and Mr. Marriott's office agreed that they should have offered more, but were unable to force them to do so. HOWEVER, feeling that what the hotel offered was WOEFULLY INADEQUATE, Mr. Marriott's office ASKED ME what I felt was appropriate compensation for the problems which we experienced at this hotel. After thinking about it for a couple of minutes, I did not ask for additional points or money, or anything that you would normally think of receiving as compensation for an experience such as this. I asked her for a TWO TIME exemption to remain Plat in case I should ever not make my 75 night stay requirement in any given year and for that to be recorded in my permanent record. She agreed immediately, and that was recorded and sent to me in a letter, and I thanked her for her cordiality and professionalism.

As an interesting aside, It just so happened that 2003 was the year of SARS, and since 2002 and 2003 were both years in which I did a lot of traveling to Asia, I only completed 55 nights for 2003 (but 105 for 2002), but before the 2003 year was completed, I received a letter from Marriott telling me that my Platinum status was being continued because of SARS and my historical Asia travel. I called Mr. Marriott's office to inquire whether that would affect my two time exemption. Their answer was no, it would not, I would still have two different years to remain Plat, in case I did not make 75 nights in the previous year. The letter I received was sent to all Plat and Gold members who had heavy concentrations of Asian travel during the previous two years (I think it was anyone who had been to Asia and stayed 20 nights or more for each year, as I had), and might have cut back their Asia travel due to SARS, according to what I was told at that time.

The Kauai Incident - February 2008:
The second somewhat similar incident was in Hawaii, at the Kauai Marriott Resort and Beach Club during the first week of February 2008, and was a points stay using the "Island Hopper" award (since discontinued). I used the Island Hopper award to bookend a business trip that I had for a conference at the Hilton Hawaiian Village in central Honolulu/Waikiki, where I had been once before for a conference (for anyone here who also stays in Hilton's, I do not recommend the HHV, unless you want to pay for the upgrade to their newest tower there, since the older towers are VERY WELL WORN - I have been in rooms in most of the buildings, either to check out the rooms, or to stay in rooms, or to visit friends/colleagues during the conferences, and the first time I was there, I paid for the upgrade, the rate was decent enough, back in 1999, maybe $20 or $30 more, but in 2008, it was $80 more, and not worth paying the extra over four nights). The earlier part of the bookend was three days at the JW Marriott Ihilani Resort and Spa at Ko Olina, on the far end of Oahu, which is an INCREDIBLE HOTEL, which I could not praise enough! I would go back to that hotel any day, and they treated me like a prince, with a suite upgrade with a wonderful view, and breakfast coupons (fantastic buffet with a view of the ocean) for two of the three days that I was there.

However, after the conference, I flew over to Kauai, where the problems started right away, at check-in! I had specifically requested NO UPGRADE for extra points, since I did not wish to pay 10,000 points per day, or 40,000 points, to be deducted from my account, just for a pool or mountain view, or 15,000 points per day for an ocean view, however, if they had availability for a comp Plat upgrade for no points, I would take that. When I checked in, they told me they had that available, and I said that would be fine, but when I got to the room, instead of the pool/partial ocean comp view room I was promised at the check in desk, I had a view of a GREEN ROOF! (which I considered much worse than a ground floor room of the rear garden, which is what was standard, without any upgrades). Before going to my room, I asked the desk clerk about dinner, but the front desk staff did not know what time the restaurants IN THE HOTEL closed, nor did they know about restaurants in the area, with the results being that by the time I took my luggage to my room (the bell staff was not available!) and changed clothes, and I walked back down to valet for my car, I asked the valet to call the restaurants to see what was open, and at only a few minutes after 9 PM, every restaurant was either already closed, or was closing in a few minutes! I was not able to have dinner that night! I called the duty manager to complain, and he met me in the lobby, and said that he was very sorry, and he asked whether "taking care of me for dinner would make it up to me?" I asked what he meant, since the restaurants were all closed? He said that he could still set me up for dinner, and handed me one of the the hotel restaurant menus, saying that the restaurant assistant manager was still working and could accommodate me on the balcony overlooking the pool, and if I said yes, that in 30 minutes they would have a table set up for me if I would tell him what I wanted for dinner, would steak and pasta be okay? I was under the distinct impression that he was offering me dinner "on the house" for the inconvenience, but when I was done eating, the restaurant assistant manager apologized as he handed me a check for $84! I had no choice except to sign it, under protest. At this point, I was finishing my dinner after 1 AM! I went back to my room to relax and go to sleep, and woke up late to go to breakfast, and got to the restaurant about 15 minutes after the posted time for breakfast, or 10:15 AM. The wait staff was waiting around with nothing to do, and lunch was not posted for another hour and forty-five minutes. The hostess asked how she could help me, and I told her that I was there for breakfast. She told me that was not possible, since they put away the eggs! There was not a soul in the restaurant, but they did not wish to serve me! I asked her whether they serve Cobb Salads for lunch, and she said yes. I asked her where they get the eggs from? She said good point, and went to ask. Five minutes later, she came back and said that they could serve me breakfast. Ten minutes later the restaurant day manager came out and told me that they were making a HUGE exception for me, and if I was late the following day for breakfast, that they would NOT accommodate me! I was incredulous!

After breakfast I had already intended to complain to the MOD anyway, so this was one more log for the fire, and additionally the hotel was rough around the edges (I found out later that it was due for a refurbishment beginning the following month). After breakfast, but before going to see the MOD, I went back to my room to drop off my breakfast reading materials, and I signed on to Marriott.com for a future reservation and noticed that my points total had been reduced. When I looked at the activity, I saw that 40,000 points had been deducted! Fortunately, I had an e-mail from the hotel, dated two weeks before my check in, stating that I would NOT be charged points for any upgrade, and that I would only have an upgrade on an "as available basis." When I went to the lobby to see the MOD, I had a lot to complain about, including the desk clerks not knowing restaurant hours, then being offered by the night manager for my dinner to be "taken care of," but being charged anyway, then supposedly having an upgrade to a view room, but only seeing a green roof, then being treated rudely for breakfast, and then being charged for a non-existent upgrade when I had it in writing that I would not be charged. The MOD said that she would have to check, and left me sitting, twiddling my thumbs in the lobby, for 20 minutes, and then came back and offered me a hotel voucher for $75 (less than the cost of the silly dinner from the night before), and a switch to a view room, and no offer to refund the points! When I told her that this would not be satisfactory, she kept me waiting for another 10 minutes, and came back to offer me a room credit of $100, and switch to a view room, but that was the hotel's final offer, take it or leave it! I reminded her of the e-mail that I had, promising no charge for the upgrade, but she said she did not know anything about that, nor could she do anything about it. The service at the hotel did not get any better, and I had a poor time there. Before leaving, I complained to the Senior Manager on duty, about all that has gone on, and he said he would take it under advisement and let me know shortly. When I got back home, I received an e-mail from a different manager, who had a title, "guest relations manager," indicating that the compensation that I received was appropriate under the circumstances, and he was unwilling to refund the 40,000 points, but I was free to call him to discuss it further. I took him up on his offer to call him and did so the next evening. He was quite firm, to the point of rudeness, and was unwilling to budge on his position, and even worse, he actually stated that he felt I was the rude one to the breakfast manager!

Again I called Mr. Marriott's office and spoke with his assistant for the Asia/Pacific area (now a different person than in 2003), retelling the story in detail. Fortunately I had documentation in the form of the e-mails before arriving at the hotel, and e-mails from the nasty manager after I left, as well as the silly written credit voucher I was offered (and the bill showing the credit), and my Marriott Rewards account showing the points deduction (which I had in writing not to happen), and she offered to contact the hotel first, but she saw it from my side immediately. The manager who was rude to me was totally unresponsive to her, and that was what she reported back to me. He was unwilling to change his position in anyway. So, she overruled him and put all the points taken improperly from my account back, and gave me 50,000 points as compensation (which were imposed/charged against the hotel by Marriott) and an apology letter. We both noticed the conspicuous absence of the actual Hotel GM from the whole incident, and I let her know that the manager we were dealing with was not fit for customer contact. I would not go back to this particular hotel on a bet, at least not as long as that particular manager was still working there. It is a beautiful hotel in a beautiful location. One thing that was in my favor was that the Kauai hotel was partially converted to time share, so it was very much under the control of Marriott International. This means that I was able to achieve some measure of satisfaction, but somehow, I am not sure it would have ended up that way if not for the control of MI.

I hope this helps, you are certainly not in this alone! After 15 years as a Plat member, it also helps to know how to play the game a bit, and how to work all the angles when you have a similar problem.

Wow, thanks USirritated. I am glad to see you did get compensation in the end.

Unfortunately, its been over 3 weeks, and I have not received the 25,000 additional points promised which would at least make me whole from a points perspective, but not from a money out perspective.

I contacted Mr. Marriott's office and the owner again at the end of last week since I had still not received the points, and have yet to receive a reply.

I am glad to here that the person in Mr. Marriott's office took sides with you and forced the hotel to do something. In my case, she has always said they don't take sides and leave it solely up to the hotel. Perhaps that is why she has become silent. I am also surprised they never said anything after the rude e-mail form the GM, which is the first time I was ever able to get anything from the GM.

What strikes me as interesting about this thread is that I have now struck this hotel from my list of potential stays. Not because the OP had problems during the stay; that can happen anywhere. Rather, the whole follow-up has been so p*ss-poor that I wouldn't be able to trust them to fix a problem if there were a mistake during my stay.

Mike

I just sent a private message to the OP. What he has to tell me in reply will have a lot to say about whether the staff in Mr. Marriott's office was fully responsive or not, or whether this is going to become a growing problem where Marriott is worried about not making hotel owners who are LICENCEES (as opposed to franchisees or managed by or owned properties) unhappy in this increasingly difficult worldwide economy, and whether I need to be more careful about which hotels that I choose to stay in when making travel plans worldwide.

[QUOTE=san2yul;11948382]I have a hard time believing that the Spa gave you a 60 minutes massage rather than the 90 minutes! In my experience, the therapists know that an excellent massage equals good TIPS so I very much doubt that they pushed you out at 60 minutes when in fact you paid for 90 minutes!

I believe it- I stayed at a starwood property- was asked to move my appointment back- I did so- no biggy- therapist still was late bringing me in and finished early. When I was paying the manager asked how was my massage and I responded with a cold ok- He was intuitive enough to dig a little farther- My massage was discounted in half and I did not leave a tip.

I can assure you MI still rules the kingdom and has a big stick when needed to keep all in line

As I suspected, it has a lot to do with WHO you speak with in Mr. Marriott's office. Fortunately, I was able to direct OP to a better person for him to speak with, who was able to resolve his problem to his MUCH BETTER satisfaction (the details are best left unstated for the time being, unless the OP wishes to disclose them in this public forum). In the end, the OP was a happier camper, the hotel was spanked, and Mr. Marriott's office prevailed, as it always should in blatant cases such as put forth by the OP. Congrats Emanon! (Though too bad it took so much time and effort for you to get noticed and properly compensated in the first place, not to mention, so very awful how deplorably you were treated at the subject hotel!)

I just got a nasty letter from the Hotel. This is unbelievable!

I also just realized, I never posted what Marriott did after USIritated directed me to someone in Mr. Marriott's office.

After contacting USIritated's contact in Mr. Marriott's office at the end of August, they immediately credited me 50,000 points at the hotels expense. 25,000 in addition the 25,000 I was asking for. As far as I was concerned, this was going above and beyond. I got the 2 nights I didn't stay back, plus 25,000 extra. I figured this was compensation for the short spa service, problems, and changing my flight. I was content.

Today, I got a letter form the hotel condemning me for going over their head and not accepting their initial 25,000 points. They stated, "I am personally disappointed to hear of this action taken especially when we took the great effort to provide you with an exceptional credit of 25,000 Marriott Rewards Points as compensation for your dissatisfaction."

They then go on to say, "It was my understanding that we had already adequately explained to you that you misunderstood your benefits, and that you were wrong in your assessment of our 90 minute massage service."

Then, "Please see the attached e-mail you sent accepting our offer and agreeing to pay for your services."

They then attached an e-mail I sent to corporate a month after they agreed to credit me 25,000 points, and the points had still not credited. In the e-mail, I stated that, I did not like how the hotel addressed the issues, and as soon as the points credit, "I will simply let it go, accept the points, and move on. "

The hotel highlighted the section of my e-mail that I put in quotes. After sending this e-mail, and getting no response, and still no points, US Iritated directed me to someone at Mr. Marriott's Office, who got me 50,000 points instead of 25,000, and it appears this angers the hotel who feels they should only have to give me 25,000, after I said I would accept the 25,000 and move on. I never asked for the 25,000 extra, Mr. Marriott's office gave it to me.

I am just shocked that the hotel would now send me a letter complaining about Mr. Marriott's Office making things right. I think this is immature and vindictive. I finally felt like things were settled, and now this.

The concluded the letter, stating they feel this is unfair, and await my response.

Wow, I'd go ahead and forward a copy of that letter to Mr. Marriott's office and let them know what kind of treatment that hotel is giving you.