I thought from from Marriott FAQ, the cert will change to a point based cert. https://members.marriott.com/faq/#i-...a-after-august

So if you have a category 6 cert now, it'll change to a point based cert. So a now Cat 6 cert is for 30k. a night so in august its a cert that can be used for 30k a night or less and not map to the new Category altogether. Refund for in between travel package cert, I have no idea. It probably wont refund you anything because after 2019 with the PEAK and OFF PEAK awards, your new point based cert for the old cat 6 can get you rooms in the new Cat 4 PEAK or a new OFF PEAK Cat 5. So I wouldn't request an upgrade to a cert expecting a refund if they don't bump you categories.

Cat 4(regular cert) - 20k
Cat 1-5 - 25k
Cat 6 - 30k
Cat 7 - 35k
Cat 8 - 40k
Cat 9 - 45k.
Tier 1-3 - 50k
Tier 4-5 - 70k

Side Note: No idea what they would do with Cat 9 cert though since there is no in between 45k award since it jumps from 40k to 50k for new Cat 5-6.

The link specifically refers to certificates earned via credit cards. For TP certificates, the issue is much more complicated. There're TP certificate holders who aren't even aware the hotel categories will change in August. Imagine the reaction of these people if they're told they can't redeem for the hotels they had in mind after August.

​​​​​​​It shouldn't be much of a difference and should work the same. The only difference would be if they allow paying to bump the certs up in 30k increments instead of categories, it would all work out the same without devaluation.

The new travel package is 60k bump from cat 4(PEAK RATE) to cat 5(PEAK RATE), but thats a 60k point difference, which is the same as bumping old Cat 1-5 to Cat 7 to match the new Cat 4(STANDARD RATE) to Cat 5(STANDARD RATE). So the point base cert makes the most sense without devaulation or giving extra benefit to the user.

Does anybody think that they might convert the package to 7 or 5 one day point-based certs? My logic is that they may not want to keep too many different kinds of cert in their system. What they will have for sure are one day point-based cert for the credit card and 7 or 5 night cat based cert for the package. Introducing 7 or 5 night point based cert for conversion purpose only may not worth the effort.

They're different. Certificates earned via credit cards are "free" bonuses for spending. TP certificates, on the other hand, are paid redemption by people with specific purpose in mind.

Exactly.

There is a FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between the FN cert from Credit Card - they are part of the benefits of holding a certain CC, or part of the earning structures of certain CC. They are either being bonus, or being "earned" extras. You

The FN cert from redeeming the Travel Package, are certs PAID with points, which have a lopsided value towards the Miles portion of the Travel Package (and Marriott fixes this in the NEW Travel Package Charts effective sometime in August, but NOT on August 1st according to SPG Lurker's last updates on the subject.)

Why some people keep mixing the 2 types of certs together is beyond me. However, in all reality and with all purposes, Marriott does NOT treat them being equal or interchangeable. Therefore while they both would be considered "Floater" certs when not attached to a reservation by August 1st, the treatments on them, could be very different. If Marriott can distinguish the treatment (mapping) of the elite status based on the source where the elite status is coming from, I dont see how Marriott would not do the same regarding the FN certs.

If you pay attention to what SPG Lurker has been saying, he seems to put emphasis to the unattached certs from TP redemption, when being asked how the post August 1st treatment might be. My guess is, it is relatively easy for Marriott to handle those FN certs from Chase cards whether it is annual benefit or from spending. But it is fairly complicated to handle the certs from TP, again, due to the TP structure is very lopsided to use the points towards airline miles. It is not an equal split between the 2 components, hence the point value of the TP cert is much less.

I see your point but why doesn't the same approach make sense for TP certs? If a Cat 1-5 TP cert were valid for a redemption of up to 25K points, the certificates would continue to have the same value to the holder and the same cost to Marriott. Hotels changing redemption cost is a risk holders of unattached certificates always bore.

Yes high probability of how TP certs will be handled. I also I want to point out it is the same risk to attached as unattached TP certs if one needs to change dates after merger of an attached cert and the property has gone up in point cost.

Conversion to point-based cert is the most likely scenario. However, it's far from certainty. If it were straightforward, an announcement would have already been made with respect to the TP certs (as with the credit card linked certs). A TP cert holder has, at a minimum, a year's time to decide on a hotel in a given category. The T&C at the time of cert issuance should govern and that T&C says nothing about the number of points.

At the time of issuance the T&C's don't talk about points because the program is currently based on categories. The old program will become defunct so the T&C at that time are moot. It will be the T&C's of the transition and the New Program that will govern going forward. That is the unknown. Unattached certificates are the residual of an Airline FF Program mileage redemption where most of the value resides.

Under the existing T&C they could simply quash them or cancel them at a residual value of 7.5K points per night. The certificates don't fit into the New Program. How Marriott decides to handle them is completely up to them under any of the T&C's; existing or yet to be written.

I would anticipate they will be handled "realistically" for their residual value. Speculating a windfall is absurd!

James

None of us really knows and we're ALL speculating. My hunch is that Marriott will come out on the consumer-friendly side. First of all, these cert holders are loyal Marriott and/or Starwood customers. Secondly, however the T&C's are worded, consumer protection laws are more stringent post '08 financial crisis.

There is quite a bit of discussion about that, and many opinions, but so far no clear answer.

If you attach before 1 August, the cert will (apparently) be honored irrespective of the "new" categories and rates. However, there are warnings that if the reservation is changed at all after that date, even by adjusting stay dates, the "new" redemption rates will apply.

What we don't know is what "credit" will be given for the certificate that was attached to the reservation, particularly if the number of points for the night at that property has changed. Nor do we know how the conversion will be made for unattached certificates, particularly since the old categories do not map neatly to the new categories.

My guess (and it is indeed a guess) is that if the cost of a night at the property has not changed, or is fewer points under the new chart (e.g., an old Cat 8 at 40K per night becomes a new Cat 5 at 35K per night), the attached certificate will still be honored after the change in dates of stay, but if the "price" has increased, you will have to pay the new price but get credit for the old price already paid. But that a guess and YMMV.

My hunch is you may be right! However maybe slightly on the customer-unfriendly side. There are usually devaluations with program changes. SPG Credit cards on regular spend are going from 1 Starpoint (3 MR points) to 2 points. That is a 33% devaluation which means you have to spend 50% more for the same amount of points. It is labeled exciting changes and enhancements.

Not sure about the Loyalty aspect though. We have a barrage of bloggers demontrating daily how to churn credit cards for points and redeeming award sweet spots, kindly asking you to follow their sponsored links for a finders fee. Need a TP? Here is how you can do it with SPG Starpoint purchases when rates are discounted and to get around the yearly maximum, register your family/friends at the same address. I believe there is less loyalty than you may think and some redemptions may have never stepped foot into a Marriott or SPG property, never mind an actual stay.

Consumer Protection? That may be a difficult one. Did Marriott or SPG provide what they said they would when you stayed? Did your meeting credit? Did you get your CC stay eqivalents. Was your guaranteed Elite benefits Provided? Bonus points? When you choose to join the respective loyalty programs you are bound by the term and conditions which you had to accept. Importantly, they can change the T&C's at their sole discretion at any time for any reason with or without notice. It also says there is no guarantee of a redemption. If they have provided everything; what would be your claim to file with Consumer Protection?

James