Former SPG Hotels Leaving Marriott
#77
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
I don't think the Prague Sheraton Charles Square was that old, so it shouldn't have been desperately in need of renovations. When I stayed there a few years ago, it seemed to be in good shape and they were in the process of making a nice deck and outdoor cafe/bar on the rooftop. Later they changed the location of the executive club (including SPG Plat) breakfast from the club lounge in the very front of the hotel to some balcony/mezzanine area over the restaurant, so the property did seem to be in the process of continual improvements (although some have argued that they preferred the previous breakfast arrangement).
#78
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Programs: Hilton Honors, Marriott Bonvoy, Accor, Hyatt, (Former IHG Ambassador)
Posts: 1,394
ex W Beijing Chang’an, is now Sofitel Beijing Central Hotel
https://www.accorhotels.com/gb/hotel...19/index.shtml
https://www.accorhotels.com/gb/hotel...19/index.shtml
#79
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Virginia
Programs: Hyatt / SPG
Posts: 101
Marriott losing another 5star hotel
Hotel Talisa Vail, currently a Marriott Luxury Collection property, will become the Grand Hyatt Vail as of July 24, 2019.
https://onemileatatime.com/grand-hyatt-vail/
https://onemileatatime.com/grand-hyatt-vail/
#80
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 319
This is a VERY interesting thread to see how many hotels are pissed off with the new Marriott overlords and decide to jump ship.
Yes, I know hotels leave and join loyalty programs all the time, but this is a special scenario and I think there's value in keeping this thread updated.
If a year from now, we notice that more than 100 hotels worldwide have given marriott the middle finger, then I think we can safely say property owners and hotel general managers are not on board with all the chaos and lost customers this merger has created.
Someone should maintain a spreadhseet to see how many Marriott Bonvoy properties we lose to Hyatt, Radisson, Hilton and Accor with 1 year. I wonder which chain will be picking up the most marriott deserters.
Also will be interesting to see if a certain brand is more likely to leave than others. I'm guessing Sheratons and Le Meridiens are most likely to join another hotel loyalty club, but lets see.
Yes, I know hotels leave and join loyalty programs all the time, but this is a special scenario and I think there's value in keeping this thread updated.
If a year from now, we notice that more than 100 hotels worldwide have given marriott the middle finger, then I think we can safely say property owners and hotel general managers are not on board with all the chaos and lost customers this merger has created.
Someone should maintain a spreadhseet to see how many Marriott Bonvoy properties we lose to Hyatt, Radisson, Hilton and Accor with 1 year. I wonder which chain will be picking up the most marriott deserters.
Also will be interesting to see if a certain brand is more likely to leave than others. I'm guessing Sheratons and Le Meridiens are most likely to join another hotel loyalty club, but lets see.
#81
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 319
I'd be very very happy if the whole list went over to Hyatt, but my special request would be Des Indes in Den Hague. I'd like to see Furstenhof too,and I'd even put up with Pulitzer in exchange for these favors. Madrid, Sydney, Paris, Prague, Vegas, mainland China and Russia, why not? The more (good) Hyatts the better.
I'm sure Marriott would also be very , very happy to see some customer complaining all day long finally leaving to somewhere else.
#82
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 319
Yes, please. More, please. If they won't invest and train to brand standards please be gone. Starwood didn't have enough surplus properties or the geographic coverage to use the hammer.
There are plenty of nice pre-merger Marriott properties. JW Marriott Hong Kong vs. Le Meridien Cyberport or Sheraton Hong Hong? Please - all day, every day.
There are plenty of nice pre-merger Marriott properties. JW Marriott Hong Kong vs. Le Meridien Cyberport or Sheraton Hong Hong? Please - all day, every day.
Agree. SPG properties in HongKong before merger are just , horrible. That Sheraton should be closed for business, the worst club lounge I ever been to.
#83
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 319
The intention of the OP seems to be to create the impression that there's a net decrease in the number of high-profile Starwood-legacy properties since the merger -- and to attribute the defections to Marriott's loyalty program merger. But there's actually a net increase, and it's likely that most of these defections would have happened even if Starwood had remained an independent company.
Marriott acquired Starwood in September 2016 and merged the loyalty programs in August 2018. Marriott has been boasting 6,700+ hotels -- a number that continues to grow. The number of hotels under Starwood-legacy brands continues to grow as part of that.
Yes, at a hotel a company the size of Marriott, where will always be some reflagging, including some high-profile properties. Some reflagging can happen when a hotel is sold and the new owner wants to convert it. Other reflagging can happen when a franchise contract reaches the end of its term and the hotel owners projects there's more money to be made without a brand affiliation or with a different brand. And, of course, there are cases when a hotel owner loses a franchise because of the failure to comply with brand standards.
Marriott has also been adding high-profile locations. The following Forbes article from December 2017 discusses new hotels under luxury brands, , including many Starwood-Legacy ones. The article does not include Westin, Le Méridien, and Tribute Portfolio. Also, the article does not include hotels announced in 2018. (And it's likely that some of the details in the article are now obsolete.)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#22164fcd6995
If you dig around at Marriott's Development website at https://hotel-development.marriott.com, you'll find impressive pipeline counts across Marriott's portfolio of brands.
Marriott acquired Starwood in September 2016 and merged the loyalty programs in August 2018. Marriott has been boasting 6,700+ hotels -- a number that continues to grow. The number of hotels under Starwood-legacy brands continues to grow as part of that.
Yes, at a hotel a company the size of Marriott, where will always be some reflagging, including some high-profile properties. Some reflagging can happen when a hotel is sold and the new owner wants to convert it. Other reflagging can happen when a franchise contract reaches the end of its term and the hotel owners projects there's more money to be made without a brand affiliation or with a different brand. And, of course, there are cases when a hotel owner loses a franchise because of the failure to comply with brand standards.
Marriott has also been adding high-profile locations. The following Forbes article from December 2017 discusses new hotels under luxury brands, , including many Starwood-Legacy ones. The article does not include Westin, Le Méridien, and Tribute Portfolio. Also, the article does not include hotels announced in 2018. (And it's likely that some of the details in the article are now obsolete.)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douggol.../#22164fcd6995
If you dig around at Marriott's Development website at https://hotel-development.marriott.com, you'll find impressive pipeline counts across Marriott's portfolio of brands.
Good point. Very interesting. Many of the hotel from the list had its issue before the merger.
Also, I think OP 's list is incorrect. The Westin Paris is not leaving Marriott.
#84
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,752
Have plans changed since the news posted in this thread?
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...thread-24.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...thread-24.html
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
Marriott has standard? Good one LOL
before the Starwood purchase, about 95% of Marriott properties were Courtyards/ Spring hills/ Fairfield/ resident inns, town places #Gross
#87
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 319
Marriott has standard? Good one LOL
before the Starwood purchase, about 95% of Marriott properties were Courtyards/ Spring hills/ Fairfield/ resident inns, town places #Gross
Plus, the quality of CY in Asia can simple surpassed most of your " upscale" Westin in the US.
If your understanding of Marriott OR any other hotel chain out side of your SPG world is only cheap/ select brand, then is your lost, and probably seldom fly to another continent/country outside of your own....
Bottom line, if your not happy with the current pro folio of Marriott, you can leave and stay at Parker Meridien NYC, and if you want asking me if Marriott having standards? You should check the average guest satisfying report at JD power of your SPG brands comparing to Marriott. You familiar with Sheraton? Or maybe Four points? Let's bring a luxury brand called W hotel and check its reputation of notable location such as Las Vegas, New York , Paris opera.. I can go on, and then you comparing to Marriott's Editon.
And you are telling me that most of Marriott properties in the USA are brands like CY or FF, you may want check what's the percentage of Sheraton and 4p versus LC in SPG portfolio.
Last, I'm not defending for Marriott. But ANY of your spg guests here , if is not happy with the new Bonvoy or just hate Marriott for no reasons, you can just leave, keep complaining is not helping you. And it certainly will not change anything. Just leave.
As Horace pointed out, OP trying to make an impression that more and more high profile SPG hotels leaving Marriott, but it’s not.
Those parker New York , W Beijing, are hotels with long time problems, do you know how horrible W Beijing was?
How about St regis in Tianjin? Notorious in Flyer forum in china, the lowest guest satisfying rate among all Marriott Hotels in Tianjin, from your luxury brand of SPG.
Last edited by Vince Chan; Jul 31, 2019 at 9:06 am
#88
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 319
Marriott has standard? Good one LOL
before the Starwood purchase, about 95% of Marriott properties were Courtyards/ Spring hills/ Fairfield/ resident inns, town places #Gross
“95percents of Marriott properties are FF/spring hills/resident inn, gross!
——this is incorrect , it depend on the continent you are located, In Asia/ Europe/ Middle East, the gross brands that u are referring to are less than 20 percents of the whole Marriott profolio.
There are more Ritz carton than courtyard in Middle East.
There are more Renaissance + JW than combine of Fairfield and Residence inn in Asia.
There are more Autograph collections+ Marriott hotels than Couryard and no Fairfield or Spring Hill in Europe.
I make the conclusion that SPG as a hotel management company, not just a loyalty program, failed at management individual franchise hotel, I make the conclusion and impression because I've stayed at tons of LM , Sheraton and Westin. I don't care about guest service or IT from headquarter because I rarely deal with them , but I deal with hotel people and its standard when every time I stay at a SPG hotel. It just failed.
And you? How many of Edition, Marriott, Renaissance that you ever stayed with, when you make the impression that Marriott international's is consist of 99% gross brand like Fairfield and Residence inn?
Last edited by Vince Chan; Jul 31, 2019 at 8:53 am
#89
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
That being said, legacy Marriott and legacy SPG had some weak properties, who left because they failed to meet brand standards or, like the Habtoor properties, wanted Marriott to create their own brand (Hilton did). Additionally, its fairly common for hotels to change flags when their contracts expire because of the cost of renovating to current standards. That's the whole purpose of the Delta and Doubletree brands ...
And as for the former SPG hotels leaving Marriott, they are far outnumbered by new hotels joining Marriott under the former SPG brands.
If you have some data that there has been a net decrease in legacy SPG properties, it would be nice to see it.
Last edited by C17PSGR; Aug 1, 2019 at 10:03 am
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
I remember calculating this at the time of the merger and I think ~70% of legacy Marriott, Inc. properties were limited service.
(Of course, the public data about the W brand is also to the contrary of some FTers beliefs...)
(Of course, the public data about the W brand is also to the contrary of some FTers beliefs...)