swintec

I am approaching 3200 lifetime nights. do i win?!

MSPeconomist

DL-Don

No, in reality, you are the biggest loser.

C17PSGR

Still curious over the selection criteria.

You won't get an Ambassador with a couple of nights ... mine emailed me to tell me that I will continue to have an ambassador through the end of the calendar year but then its based on the published system.

hockeyinsider

Some Courtyard properties are nicer than Marriott, Renaissance, Sheraton and Westin properties.

hockeyinsider

It's kind of weird how, to my knowledge, Marriott has never touted any of you guys in the way that say United or some of the airlines have touted their mega-frequent flyers who are million milers multiple times over.

MSPeconomist

C17PSGR

bhrubin

I'm quoting this from @C17PSGR from a related thread but responding here where it actually seems most appropriate.

This largely is ridiculous. But you did get it right that SPG Plat benefits always have been better than those for Marriott Plats.

First, guarantees for Platinums for rooms or being walked were not better at all between Marriott and SPG--they were quite comparable. Your assessment is made without any evidence because there is no evidence to support such a preposterous premise.

Second, points rates were better is a red herring. Marriott elites earned more points than their SPG counterparts for hotels that cost more points than their SPG counterparts. If you were an SPG75 and earned 4 points/$1, your assessment is wildly inaccurate. There's a reason that SPG points always have been considered wildly more valuable than Marriott points and that's the concomitant reason why Marriott conceded the point by making 1 SPG point worth 3 Marriott points.

Third, Marriott people talk about the FD people knowing you're Plat. SPG FD always knew one is Plat too. SPG systems don't differentiate between Plat50 and Plat75, so there's no reason for any systems to differentiate those based on the manner in which SPG operates. SPG didn't differentiate at FD point of contact for Plat100 Ambassador guests but did so in a more personalized way at the better hotel brands--discussing them as VIPS at the daily management meetings in most cases. Just because it's done differently, you are making a non-sequitur assessment that somehow one is better than another. Sorry, but I have always been recognized and treated better than a typical Platinum despite the FD agent not saying I was a Plat100--I was treated like gold by everyone in the hotel because I was always recognized as a VIP. Recognition might occur through different mechanisms, but recognition happens just the same. And since SPG had far more upscale and luxury level hotel brands, that recognition actually translated into far better service. Marriott barely has any upscale or luxury options to the same extent as SPG, so your apples to oranges comparison is unworthy.

What are you talking about? You are a Marriott Plat who has been matched thus far only to SPG Plat. You are recognized at EVERY SPG HOTEL as a Plat when you check in by any FD agent. Your recognition may not always get you suite upgrades because there now are far more SPG Plats due to the Marriott Plats being matched, obviously. After all, there are far more Marriott Plats than there are SPG Plats.

Your proportional but anecdotal example of suite upgrades completely ignores the locations of your hotels. If your Marriott stays are in less urban, less upscale markets with less competition for upgrades, as is more common for Marriott properties (there being so many more of them), then it doesn't conclude anything that you might get fewer upgrades at the more urban and more popular SPG properties. You're drawing conclusions based only on the details you want to matter while ignoring other parameters that also factor in. Terrible analysis if ever I saw one.

I would venture to say that the 2 suites at SPG hotels likely were nicer than the 6 suites at the Marriott hotels. After all, SPG hotels on average are nicer than Marriott hotels because SPG has far more upscale/luxury hotels proportionally than Marriott. There is no question there.

You want to be greeted as Plat Premier...even though there is NO published difference between Marriott Platinum and Marriott Platinum Premier now. So your need for the specific recognition is totally irrelevant. The distinction doesn't exist within SPG until you reach Ambassador...but that distinction isn't something realized by a FD agent. You just don't understand or care to understand the difference.

Your Ambassador now through Marriott is NOT necessarily the same as any Ambassador through SPG. Yet another fallacy. The Marriott experiment with Ambassadors was obviously to try and match what SPG offers in preparation for when the new loyalty program offers Ambassadors, too. But Marriott operates differently than SPG operates, so your Ambassador operates within different confines and expectations than any of the SPG Ambassadors. The SPG Ambassador operation is far more experiencee--and probably operates with a consideration to one's overall spend, which is why people who spent more have had better Ambassador experiences than those who spent less. Marriott hasn't incorporated that distinction yet at all for its current Ambassador experiment, so everyone might as well be a low spending elite for them!

You seem to think so little of the Ambassador program that SPG provides and that the new loyalty program will try to offer--based on your limited experience with the brand new Marriott attempt to mimic the SPG Ambassador program. Yet the SPG program clearly was taking into consideration how much one spent, even though that was never publicly disclosed. Now that's more obvious after Marriott has added the $20K spent requirement to qualify for the Ambassador status/perk for the new loyalty program. So your analysis misses the mark on almost every level.

C17PSGR

Your post is unnecessarily hostile. Among other things, its seem bizarre to suggest there isn't a single thing from the MR program that is better than the SPG program. I've identified valid points which are purely objective. I was very surprised to see that SPG doesn't offer the same benefits for those who don't get their guaranteed room type or get walked as the Marriott side.

As for the suites issue, I don't know how you can make such a broad brush statement. My two suite upgrades on the SPG side this year have been fine but they were both open studio style rooms with a couch. In contrast, on the Marriott side in the past month alone, I've had (a) a 2000 square foot suite with a dining room, living room, and multiple bathrooms, (b) a two room ocean front suite, (c) a two room suite with the best view in town, and (d) two different top floor two room suites with mountain views. That's just this month and all of those are in major world cities with SPG properties. I did get great treatment in a large two room suite at a CY in a rural area where the nearest SPG options was several hundred miles away.

And as to the Ambassador, I'm still looking for someone on the MR side to describe what they have received from their Ambassador -- without a request. As far as I can tell, people request upgrades through their ambassador, add names to reservations, get assistance with multiple rooms, and get assistance with rewards reservations. Additionally, people also request some assistance with special events such as anniversaries. With the exception of a one or two posters, I'm not seeing anyone on the SPG board who has received anything more than this either. I'm not trying to beat up the program -- I keep looking for ideas so I can benefit.

And ... since you don't stay at MR properties and certainly haven't spent 50 nights at MR properties since status matching, I don't know how you can draw a comparison. Otherwise, you're drawing on a sample set of one. Frankly, I can't remember when the status matching took place but I've certainly spent 100+ nights at Marriott properties since then as well as 50 at SPG properties. Once the novelty wore off, its obvious to me

(a) that there's no qualitative difference on average between W/Westin/Renn/Marriott/Autograph properties although they do have different electrical outlet standards near the bed and at the desk, different thermostats, and different carpet/color schemes.
(b) W's certainly on average get a trashier/posers who can't afford a room/6 to a room while sneaking in a cooler crowd than MR properties but also have a better pool if its not overrun by day guests who otherwise can't afford to stay there.
(c) It's nice to be able to get breakfast at a resort or LC and nice to find occasional SPG properties which are more convenient.
(d) That elite recognition for a Plat Premier at MR properties is better than recognition as a Plat at SPG properties. Both are often inconsistent. maybe its that VIP recognition you refer to but I don't how an FD at an SPG would know you are an SPG 100. Perhaps you can explain.
(e) My Ambassador plays a minimal role in my guest experience. Perhaps that's because I'm not calling them and asking them for things but with 150 actual nights in the past year, I don't have time to call them and don't know what to ask for ...
(f) Most importantly, engaged GM's make the biggest difference for an elite status guest and they are not unique to either legacy program. The GM at W Miami Brickell is great and the GM at W Scottsdale is abysmal. The GM at JW Camelback is great; the GM at JW Cabo is not.

bhrubin

I don't mean to be hostile at all. I respect you (even when we disagree) on most topics but certainly disagree with you wholeheartedly on this issue. Just because we disagree doesn't mean anyone is being hostile.

I stay mostly at SPG properties but also at MR properties. I have stayed most recently at Ritz Carlton Kyoto, Ritz Carlton Boston, Courtyard New Haven, and Renaissance Providence. I've stayed more than 20 nights thus far with Marriott. I was upgraded to suites at all of those except for the Courtyard, where I usually was upgraded to a much larger room. But I'd never compare a suite at a Courtyard (or Four Points) with a suite at a Ritz Carlton or even the Renaissance--because they aren't even remotely close.

As to your suite judgments, I reiterate that the brand of hotel makes a huge difference. It's curious that we never learn the identity of the specific hotels at which people get upgrades or don't get upgrades. I find that likely to be because the hotels that don't upgrade don't have many suites to start with or have crappy suites anyway. I also assume that your 2000 square feet suite is at a paltry non upscale hotel since you never bother to identify it, while your junior suite SPG experiences have been at much nicer hotels. The fact that one doesn't identify the hotels makes the judgments derived awfully questionable to me. Yours included.

You've spent 100+ nights at Marriott and 50+ with SPG and assume that somehow should make you an expert on upgrades. Not if you stay at less upscale or midscale properties. There aren't many suites at most of those, and the suites that they do have are not what I'd called aspirational.

You've wrongly assumed I don't stay at MR properties. Yet I have, and yet I've often been upgraded. I've even submitted some Expert Reviews for some of those hotels based on numerous stays.

Also, not sure what your pronouncements below--most of which are inaccurate or questionable--have to do with Ambassador status?

Sorry, but W hotels are considered luxury hotels and with rates to match...just like Edition. There is a difference. You may not have stayed at the better Ws and perhaps stayed at the better Autorgraph or Renaissance, but your pronouncement here is just wrong. Suites at some of these are nicer than others. Suites at urban examples of W (most Ws are either urban or in resort destinations), Westin, Renaissance, and some Autographs are going to be nicer than suites at less urban Marriotts, Renaissance, Sheraton, and Autograph.

Your judgments aside, W's have higher average rates than JW Marriott. Still not sure what this has to be with Ambassadors.

It's nice to get a breakfast benefit at any SPG hotel, including St Regis, Luxury Collection, and resorts. This is another example of how SPG Plat benefits were always better than Marriott Plat benefits. Any SPG Plat can get breakfast at St Regis or Luxury Collection or W. No MR Plat Premier gets breakfast at Ritz Carlton or Edition. You're helping to make my point that SPG Plat benefits always have been better.

I find this to be a truly shocking assessment--aside from the fact that I'm struggling to figure out how this applies to Ambassadors!

You seem unable to understand that front desk recognition isn't the only level of recognition or service improvement. Marriott does its recognition entirely through the FD recognition for its Plat and Plat Premiers,. SPG does the same recognition for its Plats--it just doesn't distinguish at the FD between Plat25, Plat50, Plat75, and Plat 100. For Plat100 Ambassador guests, those are identified as VIPs in daily management meetings with all hotel departments, not just Front Desk. As a Plat100 I am often recognized by name by valets, front desk, housekeeping, and restaurant staff. Even at a Four Points, but not always. Almost always at a St Regis.

Your point makes no sense...and is just wrong.

Your Marriott Ambassador isn't necessarily anything like an SPG Ambassador. They haven't begun to cross train yet. Still, perhaps your guest experience isn't so great because you don't spend enough or don't stay enough at hotels that better execute Ambassador requests. You don't seem to understand how the Ambassafor program works IMO.

There are innumerable examples on the SPG Ambassador threads showing how Ambassador can add to the SPG experience. You seem to have ignored them all.You seem to instead focus on the complaints that the Ambassadors don't do much for some Plat100s. Those Plat100s are likely those who don't spend as much or who stay at more misscale type hotels.

Absolutely the can--but not every awesome GM makes for a great hotel experience, either. We still largely agree here. A great GM usually makes everything better. The management meetings better identify the VIPs. The management teams deliver better service. And the better GMS are often at better brands. But that doesn't speak to the Ambassador as much as how individual hotels execute on behalf of Ambassadors for their elite VIP guests.

When you are an Ambassador level guest staying at a good hotel with a great GM, the experience truly can be amazing. I know. I've had great experiences at the StR San Francisco (where I often see the manager), the StR NYC, the StR Bora Bora (where I met a few times with the GM), the RC Kyoto (where I met the GM), the RC Boston (where I spoke with the GM), the StR NYC, the Gritti Palace Venice (where I met the GM), the W Boston (where i met a senior manager), the W SF, the W Bogota (where I met senior managers), the W Punta Mita, the StR Punta Mita, the Excelsior Gallia Milan (where I met the GM), and even the Four Points Chelsea and Four Points Midtown (where I met both GMs), etc.

I also had a very poor experience at the Liberty Boston--despite speaking with the lackluster and unimpressive GM. Go figure. That's why I now stay at the W and Ritz Carlton.

UA-NYC

How many times have you ever been walked? 1,000+ nights for me now between the two and has never happened once. So it's kind of a straw man argument.

Marriott doesn't guarantee me a bed type but Starwood does...how is that better for Marriott?

You have had better experiences w/Marriott, but as I've said before, I've seen many posts from long term Marriott elites that say, more or less, more suites w/SPG in the past 6-12 months than 10+ years with Marriott. I haven't seen anyone else say the reverse.

I've actually done 50 nights in total post-match (some as Gold via United, most as a Plat via SPG match). I got a nice upgrade at the Cosmo (3 nights) due to some amazing Ambassador intervention. I remember once nice junior suite, very big room, at the Hotel Chicago (1 night). I think that's it for suite upgrades. The couple M Clubs I have been to are quite good. But IMO the overall elite experience has been a notch lower than with SPG, via hotel experience, communication w/Plat support. YMMV.

C17PSGR

I appreciate your view since you've done 50 nights. I don't have that much need for communication with support but both seem fine to me although I see the recent complaints on Marriott side. Marriott does guarantee bed type. If they don't deliver on the guarantee, you get a cash payment on the spot. I've never been walked, but I have received a couple of cash payments over the years. And on the suite issue, I've only seen one person say that upgrades are better on the SPG side but I understand your perspective.

In any event, we're stuck with a mix of the best from both sides and the worst from both sides. Personally, I'm hoping this results in training that leads to a more consistent experience.

UA-NYC

Rare where I don't get the bed type I booked...happened recently at two different crappy Sheratons actually and each time my Ambassador credited me 5K points. That vs. cash would be a toss-up for me.

bhrubin