2020 Shutdown Thread

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Old Jan 4, 20, 4:21 am   -   Wikipost
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1. SHUTdn by Bank, Credit Card info. (@m3x, chs3 ,c1t1 and [email protected])
2. Length of account before closure and CL?
3. Average monthly account balance checking and savings?
4. Volume of ms per month and how many months?
5. Cycle CL?
6. Did you BP using both options?
- BP by issuing bank (@m3x, chs3, c1t1 and [email protected])
- BP by Vis/MC
7. Did you spell out the bank's full name in an internet forum?
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Old Jan 1, 20, 11:43 am
  #1  
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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2020 Shutdown Thread

Happy New Year People!

24 pages of shutdowns last year, and that largely didn't include the Citi/AA situation.

We'll see if this thread goes shorter or longer for 2020.

Here's the 2019 thread:

2019 Shutdown Thread

2018 had 29 pages:

2018 Shutdown Thread

2017 was 32 pages:

2017 Shutdown Thread

2016 = 33:

The 2016 Shutdown Thread

In 2015, we had 32 pages, but the thread started in March:

The 2015 Shutdown Thread

My general view: Citi and Amex seem to be tightening up, while Chase and Barclays haven't been in the news as much recently. Be careful out there, but maximize!
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Old Jan 4, 20, 12:19 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
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Charles Schwab Shutdown?

Charles Schwab Shutdown

Recently received a letter that simply said Schwab is exercising its rights to terminate my account at anytime for any reason effective yesterday (1/3/2019).

I never deposited MO, but did cash out $10k ish in MR and withdrew quickly.

I never held much in the account in terms of assets and and used the account to ACH for a couple bank bonus as Direct Deposit.

Account was open for 18 months prior to this. Only about $100 in investments and no retirement accounts with Schwab.

My biggest hang up is they wonít even allow an appeal, wonít provide ANY info and will not tell me definitively if I am banned. Even when I pressed them and said it will result in a hard pull to apply again, can you just tell me if I should beat it. They said youíre welcome to apply for a new account, but it will go through the approvals process and I cannot tell you if it will be approved or denied.
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Old Jan 4, 20, 1:22 pm
  #3  
 
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Iíll hazard a guess - Schwab (correctly) viewed you as a client that isnít profitable. They incur cost and some element of compliance risk for every account.
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Old Jan 4, 20, 1:53 pm
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Originally Posted by 1120 View Post
Iíll hazard a guess - Schwab (correctly) viewed you as a client that isnít profitable. They incur cost and some element of compliance risk for every account.
I donít disagree. Not even one bit. My biggest question now is if Iíll ever be able to get back in or if this is a lifetime ban.
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Old Jan 4, 20, 3:14 pm
  #5  
 
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Originally Posted by FI_RE14 View Post
I donít disagree. Not even one bit. My biggest question now is if Iíll ever be able to get back in or if this is a lifetime ban.
I suspect that if, after a certain amount of "cooling off" you approached a local CS office and plunked down, say 6 digits of assets into an IRA, that they would probably bring you back into the fold (with a stern warning not to behave as you had in the past).

OTOH, if you are asking if you will be permitted to repeat the behavior that got you banned in the first place, I suspect that you know the answer to that question.
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Old Jan 4, 20, 3:43 pm
  #6  
 
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Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
I suspect that if, after a certain amount of "cooling off" you approached a local CS office and plunked down, say 6 digits of assets into an IRA, that they would probably bring you back into the fold (with a stern warning not to behave as you had in the past).

OTOH, if you are asking if you will be permitted to repeat the behavior that got you banned in the first place, I suspect that you know the answer to that question.
Definitely not repeat what I have done, but I would still use it to cash out MR, this time however keeping it in the account for investing/retirement as I save for that anyway.

You do bring up a good point however about the retirement, I am not sure having retirement account would help them approve me for brokerage/checking as the last shutdown I saw he got his brokerage/checking closed but retirement remained open.

With only retirement accounts, can I cash out MR?
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Old Jan 4, 20, 5:23 pm
  #7  
 
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Originally Posted by FI_RE14 View Post
Definitely not repeat what I have done, but I would still use it to cash out MR, this time however keeping it in the account for investing/retirement as I save for that anyway.

You do bring up a good point however about the retirement, I am not sure having retirement account would help them approve me for brokerage/checking as the last shutdown I saw he got his brokerage/checking closed but retirement remained open.

With only retirement accounts, can I cash out MR?
I am a bit puzzled.
If you want to have Schwab as a financial partner, then you need to practice safe MSing, which means that you don't poop where you eat.
Move your MS activity to somewhere that has no connection to Schwab.

IF they let you have an IRA, I would think that it would include at a minimum a money market account to hold free cash. I suspect that if you behaved, they would eventually let you in for a checking and savings account.

If you want to persist in the behavior that got you shut down in the first place with this company, then don't expect them to welcome you back.
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Old Jan 4, 20, 7:26 pm
  #8  
 
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Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
I am a bit puzzled.
If you want to have Schwab as a financial partner, then you need to practice safe MSing, which means that you don't poop where you eat.
Move your MS activity to somewhere that has no connection to Schwab.

IF they let you have an IRA, I would think that it would include at a minimum a money market account to hold free cash. I suspect that if you behaved, they would eventually let you in for a checking and savings account.

If you want to persist in the behavior that got you shut down in the first place with this company, then don't expect them to welcome you back.

I never used Schwab for any MS activity aside from cashing out MR. No MO deposits, etc.

I used Schwab to fulfil DD on a few bank bonus.

I donít care about having Schwab as a financial partner for my retirement, TD, Fidelity, Vangaurd, etc can all get me to my goals.

What I do care about is That I have 3 gold cards ($750 AF) and no where to cash out the 300k MR I could earn this year for a decently attractive redemption.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 4:40 am
  #9  
jk2
 
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Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
I am a bit puzzled.
If you want to have Schwab as a financial partner, then you need to practice safe MSing, which means that you don't poop where you eat.
Move your MS activity to somewhere that has no connection to Schwab.

IF they let you have an IRA, I would think that it would include at a minimum a money market account to hold free cash. I suspect that if you behaved, they would eventually let you in for a checking and savings account.

If you want to persist in the behavior that got you shut down in the first place with this company, then don't expect them to welcome you back.
I'm puzzled as well. What kind of MS activity OP did? He deposited money, he withdrew them. I am failed to see what he did wrong.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 6:26 am
  #10  
 
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Originally Posted by jk2 View Post
I'm puzzled as well. What kind of MS activity OP did? He deposited money, he withdrew them. I am failed to see what he did wrong.
Sure, not classic "MSing" in our sense.

However, read his post again. He was using CS to cash out not insubstantial ($10K) rewards in an account that had no assets ($100) and then moving the cash out of that account as soon as he accomplished his intended goal of monetizing the MRs.. Now he is in a pickle because he lost a conduit for cashing out MRs. (So think of a comparison, substitute VGC for MR and then me trying to use CS to cash out my Simon VGCs, if that were possible.)

CS correctly saw that this was a very non-profitable customer in both the security and expense side of the equation and dumped him. I suggested that after a period of time reestablishing a relationship with a local CS center and then not doing what got him shut down in the first place (at least lower the volume and velocity and keep the money in CS)..

Remember, his question was whether he was banned for life. In essence, I said no with a qualification.

Last edited by radonc1; Jan 5, 20 at 6:33 am
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Old Jan 5, 20, 6:55 am
  #11  
jk2
 
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Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
Sure, not classic "MSing" in our sense.

However, read his post again. He was using CS to cash out not insubstantial ($10K) rewards in an account that had no assets ($100) and then moving the cash out of that account as soon as he accomplished his intended goal of monetizing the MRs.. Now he is in a pickle because he lost a conduit for cashing out MRs. (So think of a comparison, substitute VGC for MR and then me trying to use CS to cash out my Simon VGCs, if that were possible.)

CS correctly saw that this was a very non-profitable customer in both the security and expense side of the equation and dumped him. I suggested that after a period of time reestablishing a relationship with a local CS center and then not doing what got him shut down in the first place (at least lower the volume and velocity and keep the money in CS)..

Remember, his question was whether he was banned for life. In essence, I said no with a qualification.
I see. Because I use CS as well for the same purposes but don't withdraw money immediately. I have both checking and investment accounts for years, and until recently I was doing an investments with them. But I moved my assets from them to Etrade because of new account bonus. Now I have about ~$3K in checking and ~$500 on investment account. When ebates pay me quaterly, I moved MRs to CS and leave them there. Is it also a concern for CS?
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Old Jan 5, 20, 7:13 am
  #12  
 
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Originally Posted by jk2 View Post
I see. Because I use CS as well for the same purposes but don't withdraw money immediately. I have both checking and investment accounts for years, and until recently I was doing an investments with them. But I moved my assets from them to Etrade because of new account bonus. Now I have about ~$3K in checking and ~$500 on investment account. When ebates pay me quaterly, I moved MRs to CS and leave them there. Is it also a concern for CS?
Obviously I cannot tell you for certain. What I do know is that the greater the relationship, the more forgiving the provider.

With the new changes with CS trading charges (no fee), I do not see the particular advantage of Etrade over CS, but that is a personal decision.
I find personally that having brick and mortar facilities as well as real people in the case of CS is an advantage.

I cannot imagine that your 3 digit (unless I am talking to Bill Gates ) quarterly ebates check is going to make a difference to CS in regards to your account, but perhaps you could beef up your investment account if you feel uncomfortable. Even a small 2 digit monthly deposit into it would be enough, in my opinion to keep the account active and ward off undesired consequences.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 8:47 am
  #13  
jk2
 
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Originally Posted by radonc1 View Post
Obviously I cannot tell you for certain. What I do know is that the greater the relationship, the more forgiving the provider.

With the new changes with CS trading charges (no fee), I do not see the particular advantage of Etrade over CS, but that is a personal decision.
I find personally that having brick and mortar facilities as well as real people in the case of CS is an advantage.

I cannot imagine that your 3 digit (unless I am talking to Bill Gates ) quarterly ebates check is going to make a difference to CS in regards to your account, but perhaps you could beef up your investment account if you feel uncomfortable. Even a small 2 digit monthly deposit into it would be enough, in my opinion to keep the account active and ward off undesired consequences.
The only reason I moved funds to Etrade that Etrade was giving very nice "new-customer" bonus for bringing money to them.

I'll probably bring some $$ to CS investment account to do some kind of investment activity to make it look nice.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 10:55 am
  #14  
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Fact is, Schwab has no legitimate reason for closing accounts that use Schwab to cash out MR points. Schwab has a long list of terms and rules and policies, and nowhere does it state that using one of its features, like the cashout of MRs, is grounds for terminating an account. The banks and brokerages simply act this way, illegally and unfairly, because they can and no one ever stops them from doing so. Recognize that they can do any damn thing they want, without reason and without recourse--but don't accept it and excuse that behavior as legitimate in some way.
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Old Jan 5, 20, 11:40 am
  #15  
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Originally Posted by ogg View Post
Fact is, Schwab has no legitimate reason for closing accounts that use Schwab to cash out MR points. Schwab has a long list of terms and rules and policies, and nowhere does it state that using one of its features, like the cashout of MRs, is grounds for terminating an account. The banks and brokerages simply act this way, illegally and unfairly, because they can and no one ever stops them from doing so. Recognize that they can do any damn thing they want, without reason and without recourse--but don't accept it and excuse that behavior as legitimate in some way.
Are you a top lawyer to state the above? What if someone stole millions of MR points, cash out for $10,000, then quickly transfer the money out? It is clearly a money laundering risk.

I do not think it is un-profit customer issue. It is more a compliance issue and related risk. The bank can be fined for any possible illegal activities. But shutting down account is not one of them. I would have done the same if I ran the bank.

Last edited by RedSun; Jan 5, 20 at 3:11 pm
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