Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Oct 19, 2014, 12:56 pm
#1096
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 12
Newbie, feeling stimied
HI I am new to this. All I had done before was use airline credit cards.
Didn't really churn, but get a new one every year or so for the miles.
How would you map out a small plan for a newbie? I have good access to CVS, Target, Wallmart, these are the easiest.
I am still not understanding the basics. So if I could do a small run, it would be great.
Didn't really churn, but get a new one every year or so for the miles.
How would you map out a small plan for a newbie? I have good access to CVS, Target, Wallmart, these are the easiest.
I am still not understanding the basics. So if I could do a small run, it would be great.
Oct 19, 2014, 6:29 pm
#1097
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 224
In the future, just answer the person's question. The condescending tone and snarky comments are unnecessary. If the noob questions annoy you, then you're definitely in the wrong place.
Oct 20, 2014, 12:40 am
#1098
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: UA, AA, AMEX MR
Posts: 111
FlightNurse, Your condescending reply was uncalled for. This thread is a place where those that are new to the game can come to for answers to their questions. In this case, he encountered a well documented issue that most of us are aware of. But, remember this thread is for newbies and such questions should be expected. If the question had been asked in one of the other threads of the MS section, I'd have no problem with your response. However, if you're put off by a noob question in a thread titled, "New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.", then I can assure you that your time spent reading through the various posts here will not be pleasant. There are numerous noob questions here. That's what it's for.
In the future, just answer the person's question. The condescending tone and snarky comments are unnecessary. If the noob questions annoy you, then you're definitely in the wrong place.
In the future, just answer the person's question. The condescending tone and snarky comments are unnecessary. If the noob questions annoy you, then you're definitely in the wrong place.
Oct 20, 2014, 4:22 am
#1099
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: ORF
Programs: SPG, SWR
Posts: 50
HI I am new to this. All I had done before was use airline credit cards.
Didn't really churn, but get a new one every year or so for the miles.
How would you map out a small plan for a newbie? I have good access to CVS, Target, Wallmart, these are the easiest.
I am still not understanding the basics. So if I could do a small run, it would be great.
Didn't really churn, but get a new one every year or so for the miles.
How would you map out a small plan for a newbie? I have good access to CVS, Target, Wallmart, these are the easiest.
I am still not understanding the basics. So if I could do a small run, it would be great.
Oct 20, 2014, 6:11 am
#1100
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 215
The first time you go to Walmart to load your Serve, take a real bank-issued debit card. Load a small amount at the counter and learn the process. In fact, you might do this a few times. If you are lucky enough to have a working Walmart kiosk, try loading there. Once you feel confident buy a Metabank Visa gift card for a low amount and give it a shot at the counter and/or kiosk. By the time you feel comfortable doing this, your reading /research should have provided you with other strategies and venues for MS.
Most importantly, take it slow. This is not a race. Learn one method at a time and get good at, while reading about other methods.
Last edited by rabatt; Oct 20, 2014 at 6:20 am
Oct 20, 2014, 7:38 am
#1101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,463
Thanks for telling off in such a polite manner. Then the noob should be educating themselves on how to play the game, now shouldn't they before jumping into it. Why is it so hard for noob to do this? Why do we have to be so nice to them when all the info they are asking about is posting here in FT!!
Oct 20, 2014, 7:40 am
#1102
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,463
Oct 20, 2014, 10:23 am
#1103
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific NW
Programs: AS MVP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 126
Thanks for the help
I would like to thank the FT community for all of the help. I have read hours and hours of various threads, started small with tests, and had great success without ever having to ask a basic question because it really is all here. First with the now gone VR at CVS and now with BB and just starting on 6 months of 5x grocery stores since there is now a new WM super center closer to me. With no Kate, but with well trained clerks.
Just keep searching the treads - many times the answers are deep in a thread that does not correlate to the title. Look both in this MS forum as well as the bank specific forums. There are also many many blogs that have the same info. An advantage of doing your own reading is that you are not depending on the answer of a few people and instead can see themes and problems that vary from store to store or region, which made me much more prepared for the occasional situation that did not go as planned. This takes a lot of work and time with the occasional risk, so investing in the searching and reading time really reduces both.
Just keep searching the treads - many times the answers are deep in a thread that does not correlate to the title. Look both in this MS forum as well as the bank specific forums. There are also many many blogs that have the same info. An advantage of doing your own reading is that you are not depending on the answer of a few people and instead can see themes and problems that vary from store to store or region, which made me much more prepared for the occasional situation that did not go as planned. This takes a lot of work and time with the occasional risk, so investing in the searching and reading time really reduces both.
Oct 20, 2014, 11:48 am
#1104
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1
Need help
Apologies for a very naive question from a newcomer but really confused on something. Do visa gift card purchases from Simon Malls Visa or GiftCardMall Visa gift cards count toward "qualified purchases" towards mileage rewarding credit cards?
Oct 20, 2014, 11:55 am
#1105
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 437
Oct 20, 2014, 12:33 pm
#1106
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Minnesota
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,101
While this is a true statement, if you actually read the fine print from the credit card companies they will state in many cases that these types of purchases are not valid toward meeting spending requirements. What is listed in the fine print, and what is reality is something different indeed.
Oct 21, 2014, 12:22 pm
#1107
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1
Hi,
Im new to this forum and have a question, sorry if im asking at wrong place, Im from Canada and is there a way for Manf spending in canada?
Im new to this forum and have a question, sorry if im asking at wrong place, Im from Canada and is there a way for Manf spending in canada?
Oct 21, 2014, 5:53 pm
#1108
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1
critique my GC use
Newbie here...but long time reader, first time poster. Here's my situation...I have the opportunity to legitimately buy discounted GCs from the corporate account of a local merchant. The discount is 5% with a low minimum . The merchant also stocks gift cards to other businesses and I can buy them with the merchant's cards. Say I use the merchants GCs to buy other GCs and then sell those to one of the online dealers at say 95% or better given the bulk seller rate (certain cards can go for that high). Free shipping to them with a bulk seller account and direct deposit from them into your own account to then pay your bill. Don't need to mess with prepaid cards or serve or WM. No profit but lots o points....What am I missing??
Oct 22, 2014, 12:14 am
#1109
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Programs: Hilton Gold, SPG & IHG Plat, & every airline program that I can join
Posts: 2,279
Fly further,
First off, Welcome To FT!
Go for it, many of us did just that last year with the Hyatt gift cards, but it is tough generally to find many cards to break even in the resale market such as cardpool. Most go for much less than you can purchase them for unless you are willing to take Amazon Credit for them.
Cheers!
JudyJFLA
First off, Welcome To FT!
Go for it, many of us did just that last year with the Hyatt gift cards, but it is tough generally to find many cards to break even in the resale market such as cardpool. Most go for much less than you can purchase them for unless you are willing to take Amazon Credit for them.
Cheers!
JudyJFLA
Oct 22, 2014, 3:53 pm
#1110
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
A Vanilla Reload is not a giftcard. It cannot be used to purchase goods or services. It can only be used to add value to a reloadable card, such as American Express Bluebird. Cards which can be loaded are listed on the packaging. The Vanilla Reload itself is a single use instrument - it cannot be loaded more than once.
That is a regular gift card, accepted anywhere where Visa and other CCs are accepted?
Then Visa also has MyVanilla, "Personal Reloadable Prepaid Card" and "MyVanilla Prepaid Visa Card" with a 3.95 fee. That presumably can be reloaded.
Has anyone bought any of these and did they get charged as cash advances?
Does Chase Ink Plus give 5X points for buying them at office supply stores?