Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Oct 6, 2014, 6:41 pm
#1051
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 50
State? Registration? I can't figure this one out. Can I get another hint? (I have 2 more pages to go until the end of this thread. Apologies in advance if this is answered in the next 2 pages)
Oct 7, 2014, 7:22 pm
#1052
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 35
I have been on here for about 6 months eye balling MS. I am set up for it, but I haven't taken the plunge yet mostly because I don't know how deep the water is. I have some more in depth questions I was hoping some kind person on FT could answer.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
Oct 7, 2014, 7:34 pm
#1053
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CLT
Programs: AA, UA, BA, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,074
I have been on here for about 6 months eye balling MS. I am set up for it, but I haven't taken the plunge yet mostly because I don't know how deep the water is. I have some more in depth questions I was hoping some kind person on FT could answer.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
You have to do your own calculations for the profit vs the value of your time. I would say $100K/month is relatively uncommon. Sure, people do that or even more, but most even in this forum are below that mark.
Oct 7, 2014, 7:54 pm
#1054
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
I have been on here for about 6 months eye balling MS. I am set up for it, but I haven't taken the plunge yet mostly because I don't know how deep the water is. I have some more in depth questions I was hoping some kind person on FT could answer.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
$100,000 - $6500 = $93500 * 0.035 ~ $3200/month for 3.5% overall, and $3700 for 4% overall.
At least that's what I understand. I'm a newb, so feel free to correct me for my benefit.
Oct 7, 2014, 9:13 pm
#1055
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,164
Folks,
Looking for an advice. I am not really interested in MS - I want to purchase 4 $500 VISA GCs to load them at WM to BB and use that BB for foreign trips only.
After reading several topics seems there are number of recently appearing problems: fraud with GC when crooks put stickers over the existing cards sold at stores, guessing numbers of GCs issued by US Bank, inability to use VISA GCs at WM to reload BB and so on.
So. To minimize the exposure to fraud and problems during the reload, what would one need to take into account? What should GC package looked at? How properly load funds at WM register?
Tips/info please. Thanks in advance.
Looking for an advice. I am not really interested in MS - I want to purchase 4 $500 VISA GCs to load them at WM to BB and use that BB for foreign trips only.
After reading several topics seems there are number of recently appearing problems: fraud with GC when crooks put stickers over the existing cards sold at stores, guessing numbers of GCs issued by US Bank, inability to use VISA GCs at WM to reload BB and so on.
So. To minimize the exposure to fraud and problems during the reload, what would one need to take into account? What should GC package looked at? How properly load funds at WM register?
Tips/info please. Thanks in advance.
Oct 7, 2014, 10:03 pm
#1056
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Minnesota
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,101
Oct 8, 2014, 8:49 am
#1057
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,273
4? I can think of how to get to 3: cashback > AGC > cashback > cardpool ( can you use AGC on carpool?) I'm counting the cashback > cardpool as 1 level since it's on 1 transaction. Are you counting it as 2, or is there 1 more level to mix in that I haven't thought of?
Here's one route.
1. Card use(points, miles, CB)
2. AGC (cash back portal)
3. Buy MC for PPBDC (local store points)
4. PPBDC (1% spend)
5. Extras--Purchase store GC for local points.
Oct 8, 2014, 10:12 am
#1058
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, TY, UR, UA, US, WN, MR, SPG
Posts: 1,453
I have been on here for about 6 months eye balling MS. I am set up for it, but I haven't taken the plunge yet mostly because I don't know how deep the water is. I have some more in depth questions I was hoping some kind person on FT could answer.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
1.) I know YMMV is used everywhere as in there's no guarantees... but really... what's an amount of MS that's likely to attract the kind of LEO attention that's scary?
2.) How is this that profitable? Some people say MS of 100k month isn't uncommon. After reviewing the myriad of option for generating spend and cashing instruments back out, it's hard to believe an amount that much is possible without spending a lot of time running around and then I question the return unless you churn for sign-up bonuses.
3.) Is there a guideline on how much someone should MS on a single card per month to avoid the risk of getting shut down? I've read spending and paying down a card is a way to get negative attention and potentially shut down, but I don't want these balances to show a lot on my credit report and blow up my credit utilization.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
Oct 8, 2014, 10:57 pm
#1059
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1
Liquidating VGC & MO Purchase
..... :|
Last edited by minimumspend; Oct 10, 2014 at 10:49 pm
Oct 8, 2014, 11:04 pm
#1060
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
1. You're not likely to attract LEO attention unless you're actually committing fraud. Banks or credit card issuers will start looking into your accounts at some point, though. It's not a hard and fast number, though. It also helps to spread it across multiple cards and banks. It depends if you're running money orders, etc. There is no exact science to it. The big thing is to do what you feel comfortable with. If you're just starting, you're not likely to get to redline levels right off the bat.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
Oct 9, 2014, 5:48 am
#1061
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,273
1. You're not likely to attract LEO attention unless you're actually committing fraud. Banks or credit card issuers will start looking into your accounts at some point, though. It's not a hard and fast number, though. It also helps to spread it across multiple cards and banks. It depends if you're running money orders, etc. There is no exact science to it. The big thing is to do what you feel comfortable with. If you're just starting, you're not likely to get to redline levels right off the bat.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
Oct 9, 2014, 6:34 pm
#1064
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Minnesota
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,101
Oct 10, 2014, 7:03 am
#1065
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 24
1. You're not likely to attract LEO attention unless you're actually committing fraud. Banks or credit card issuers will start looking into your accounts at some point, though. It's not a hard and fast number, though. It also helps to spread it across multiple cards and banks. It depends if you're running money orders, etc. There is no exact science to it. The big thing is to do what you feel comfortable with. If you're just starting, you're not likely to get to redline levels right off the bat.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
2. In my opinion, the profitability level is an inverted bell curve. You can do just the very basics (although AP shutting down hurts this) for almost no time and no costs. I have 4 AP and 4 Serve accounts (me, wife, mom, dad), and that makes for an easy $8K/mo with no fees and less than 1 hour per month involved. Even at 1%, that's $800/year on 12 hours of time. I'll take that. If you want to get into the GC/MO game, there is a huge learning curve. There's time invested in learning, driving around, waiting in line at WM, etc etc. This isn't really that profitable on a small scale, which is why people ramp it up so much once they start. If you can do $100K/mo buying GCs at the grocery store with 6% CB or OSS at 5%, you're making a PILE of cash in MS. More power to the people comfortable with that. My risk tolerance is no where near that, and I'll take my $8K/mo. On the Club Carlson card (5pt/$), that's almost 500K points a year. That gets me 10 nights in a nice property, or up to 20 nights with the last night free option. That is absolutely profitable (~$2500 minimum value on $96K spend = 2.6%). Many would laugh at what I do as child's play, and that's okay.
3. I generally maintain 10-35% utilization on the cards I'm using actively (4 of 15), but my overall utilization hovers about 3-5%. If you're playing with AMEX, they're much more likely to look into an account that goes 0% to 80% to 0% multiple times a month. Chase would be second on that list, and Citi doesn't seem to care at all, IMO.
My advice would be to start small. Play with Serve. Buy 1 giftcard. Try liquidating it. Do the math on the time it takes you and the returns you get. See how you feel walking around with one $500 giftcard in your pocket. Think how you'd feel with 10. Think about walking up to the cashier and telling him you want $5K in gift cards, and the nervous/unsure look he'll give you. How much is your time worth? What's your risk tolerance? There are so many aspects that go into this, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer.
Just please, please do not jump in the deep end without experimenting in the kiddie pool. There have been numerous cases of people buying the wrong thing, losing a gift card, saying or doing the wrong thing with a cashier/manager, etc.
Hope this helps.
I do have a question though. I do know that AP is done with pretty much and you mentioned having 4 AP accounts, would you add that 1 card that you get to all 4 account and send it A > B, B > C, C > D, D > A all from 1 card, or did you get 4 AU for each of those AP accounts?
I just did my last 2 AP transactions by adding same card to both accounts as a final desperate measure. Looks like it went through and both temp charges posted to CC and both transactions completed in AP, so hopefully all will go smooth since I have a $5K goal to hit
I have dabbed in reading this MS forum, but I am still unsure/unclear of how the whole Serve thing works. Would really appreciate if someone would post a DIY for dummies (like myself lol)