Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Oct 22, 2014, 4:37 pm
#1111
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 215
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.co...a-reloadables/
Last edited by rabatt; Oct 22, 2014 at 6:28 pm Reason: clarity
Oct 22, 2014, 5:50 pm
#1112
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific NW
Programs: AS MVP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 126
The link above is somewhat outdated in regards to how to liquidate Vanilla cards. Use caution. Anything with the word Vanilla on it is more difficult to use in some of the ways that you see talked about here on FT. Visa gift cards (with no Vanilla anywhere on the label) are generally the easiest for a beginner to use.
Oct 22, 2014, 6:27 pm
#1113
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 215
The link above is somewhat outdated in regards to how to liquidate Vanilla cards. Use caution. Anything with the word Vanilla on it is more difficult to use in some of the ways that you see talked about here on FT. Visa gift cards (with no Vanilla anywhere on the label) are generally the easiest for a beginner to use.
Oct 22, 2014, 7:33 pm
#1114
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
What do you mean by liquidating them?
Those that are gift cards can just be used like credit cards, no?
Those that are gift cards can just be used like credit cards, no?
Oct 22, 2014, 11:48 pm
#1115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,457
Oct 23, 2014, 10:16 am
#1116
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 9
Liquidating GCs means turning them into cash equivalents: turning them into money orders that you can deposit in your bank, loading a prepaid card like Serve with them, or using them with a service like Evolve Money to pay your bills. Once the money has been thus liquidated, you can use it like money in your bank account to pay off credit cards or pay other monthly bills, things that you normally cannot pay with credit cards.
Oct 23, 2014, 11:35 am
#1117
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Yeah I get that now, some people want to pay off student loans, which presumably they can't with credit cards.
Maybe pay taxes too.
But I'm more interested in getting gift cards from office supply stores with a Chase Ink Plus, to get 5 points and to meet the required spending to get 70k points.
Maybe pay taxes too.
But I'm more interested in getting gift cards from office supply stores with a Chase Ink Plus, to get 5 points and to meet the required spending to get 70k points.
Oct 23, 2014, 12:25 pm
#1118
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific NW
Programs: AS MVP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 126
Also buy gift cards for Amazon, Starbucks, Home Depot, Whole Foods, restaurants, etc that you will use in the relative near future or give as gifts. There is no fee on those cards. Don't do this if you will have future cards that you will need to meet minimum spend on.
I am in the INK min spend right now and I use it for everything that otherwise does not have a bonus from another card.
I am in the INK min spend right now and I use it for everything that otherwise does not have a bonus from another card.
Oct 23, 2014, 1:39 pm
#1119
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Well the tempting thing is to buy general gift cards at office supply store for the 5X points, since those cards can be used everywhere.
The UR Mall link adds 2 extra points for staples.com, so potentially 7x points.
But the fees for the gift cards are steep, 6.95 plus whatever the shipping might cost.
The UR Mall link adds 2 extra points for staples.com, so potentially 7x points.
But the fees for the gift cards are steep, 6.95 plus whatever the shipping might cost.
Oct 24, 2014, 8:01 am
#1120
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Are the reload cards even a real channel anymore? It seems like gift cards are the best option.
Oct 24, 2014, 8:11 am
#1121
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Colorado
Programs: Alaska, Shell VC, Wyndham VC, Starwood, RCI, II--I bought it on eBay!
Posts: 159
Well the tempting thing is to buy general gift cards at office supply store for the 5X points, since those cards can be used everywhere.
The UR Mall link adds 2 extra points for staples.com, so potentially 7x points.
But the fees for the gift cards are steep, 6.95 plus whatever the shipping might cost.
The UR Mall link adds 2 extra points for staples.com, so potentially 7x points.
But the fees for the gift cards are steep, 6.95 plus whatever the shipping might cost.
When you actually do the math, the 5X points is a great get for the purchase.
Oct 25, 2014, 2:33 pm
#1122
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 483
I would love some clarification on the 2 extra points because in the fine print, it says gift cards aren't eligible, but who knows if they catch the purchase as gift cards or not. 5X is still good, and you can buy up to 9 of the $200 cards at a time. We have two Ink cards, so I am using it to the max each month.
When you actually do the math, the 5X points is a great get for the purchase.
When you actually do the math, the 5X points is a great get for the purchase.
Oct 26, 2014, 3:37 pm
#1123
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: AA, USAir, UA, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 86
I know we can buy multiple pin enabled VGC and use them to load Serve, Walmart Bill pay or money orders. What I am still wondering is when you take into account the one time processing fees $4.95 to $5.95 per $500, wont you be having to pay an extra of about $35 + money order/bill pay fees on generating a MS of lets say $3000???
Does it justify the points/miles you get for the money?
Does it justify the points/miles you get for the money?
Oct 26, 2014, 6:57 pm
#1125
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 14
Spent a week reading... still kind of lost
Greetings. Contrary to most first posters, I've literally spent 40 hours on this board reading this week and I have to say I'm still kind of lost.
Few questions I can use some help on.
How much MS are you guys actually doing? I have ok annual income (150k). What would be a good goal for MS per year for me? Is 150k a good target? 300K?
I just can't figure out how much point revenue some of you are generating and how you are doing it (with the caps on Serve, limitations on VGC purchases, etc.).
I also can't seem to figure out what the best method is for your consistent (non bonus tied) MS month in and month out.
Would a good method for MS be to buy AMEX GC online (get cashback rebate) then buy VGC at WM and then convert in a mix to money order and Serve loads? It's hard to imagine doing $20k a month via these methods but if it's possible, I would like to know how to do it.
If someone can, please help me put a plan together for 2015 to earn two international week long vacations for me and my girl.
Apologies for not being able to figure this all out... but even after a week of reading, I'm still overwhelmed!
Thanks.
Few questions I can use some help on.
How much MS are you guys actually doing? I have ok annual income (150k). What would be a good goal for MS per year for me? Is 150k a good target? 300K?
I just can't figure out how much point revenue some of you are generating and how you are doing it (with the caps on Serve, limitations on VGC purchases, etc.).
I also can't seem to figure out what the best method is for your consistent (non bonus tied) MS month in and month out.
Would a good method for MS be to buy AMEX GC online (get cashback rebate) then buy VGC at WM and then convert in a mix to money order and Serve loads? It's hard to imagine doing $20k a month via these methods but if it's possible, I would like to know how to do it.
If someone can, please help me put a plan together for 2015 to earn two international week long vacations for me and my girl.
Apologies for not being able to figure this all out... but even after a week of reading, I'm still overwhelmed!
Thanks.