Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Oct 30, 2014, 2:26 pm
#1186
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
Double-post...sorry
Last edited by Dizcards; Oct 30, 2014 at 2:40 pm Reason: Double-post
Oct 30, 2014, 2:40 pm
#1187
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll wait to read the results come the 1st for both of these cards w/ respect to Serve loads and go from there with my strategy.
Now, if I could only easily figure out which, if any, of the office supply stores near me carry $500 VGC's. The more I'm reading, the less I'm counting on this being available. But since (5) $200 VGC's from an office supply store will net me more than (2) $500 VGC's from a grocery or drugstore, I'll still stick with it.
Now, if I could only easily figure out which, if any, of the office supply stores near me carry $500 VGC's. The more I'm reading, the less I'm counting on this being available. But since (5) $200 VGC's from an office supply store will net me more than (2) $500 VGC's from a grocery or drugstore, I'll still stick with it.
Oct 30, 2014, 9:13 pm
#1189
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,273
Go to the new to MS thread or BB. There are many answers in there. Reading more will help.
Oct 31, 2014, 9:43 am
#1190
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ONT/LAX
Programs: IHG Plat
Posts: 496
when did you get your SW cards? the year is almost over...
Oct 31, 2014, 10:00 am
#1191
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
Damn. Is there an easy way to tell which VGC's I can buy with a CC, regardless of the store or amount the VGC is worth?
Oct 31, 2014, 11:33 am
#1192
Join Date: May 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 391
It's a YMMV situation. Some store there's a policy against it, but it's not hard coded into the POS systems, and you may get lucky with a cashier. Where it's hard coded, you're out of luck. Some stores are wide open, but require ID/record info over a certain amount. Not sure about OSS, since I don't have any convenient for me, but supermarkets are pretty soft.
Oct 31, 2014, 12:00 pm
#1193
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
It's a YMMV situation. Some store there's a policy against it, but it's not hard coded into the POS systems, and you may get lucky with a cashier. Where it's hard coded, you're out of luck. Some stores are wide open, but require ID/record info over a certain amount. Not sure about OSS, since I don't have any convenient for me, but supermarkets are pretty soft.
One last question...other than WalMart not willing to accept OneVanilla VGC's for loads to MO's or BillPay anymore, are there any other restrictions for the VGC type I need to get? Do I just want to aim to purchase the highest value VGC's possible that have a PIN enabled so I can use them as debit in the method desired (Serve would probably be my #1 choice)? I'm not looking to go crazy here, so I'm not worried about being targeted. I just want to get through the $8k spend initially, and then see how my experiences go locally before deciding if I want to pursue MS any further.
Oct 31, 2014, 12:11 pm
#1194
Join Date: May 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 391
One last question...other than WalMart not willing to accept OneVanilla VGC's for loads to MO's or BillPay anymore, are there any other restrictions for the VGC type I need to get? Do I just want to aim to purchase the highest value VGC's possible that have a PIN enabled so I can use them as debit in the method desired (Serve would probably be my #1 choice)?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...in-cities.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...rd-target.html
Oct 31, 2014, 12:22 pm
#1195
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
Sorry to keep giving you this answer, but I also don't have a convenient WM, so I don't want to weigh in on which cards are good for that... However, you might find one of the Target cards to be easier/have fewer restrictions. Both can be loaded with any payment form accepted by Target, except Target GC. You'd have to dump your Serve card to register a REDcard, but not the AFT. And, if you're going to Target to load one, it probably makes to get both.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...in-cities.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...rd-target.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...in-cities.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...rd-target.html
If anyone else has any insight re: the "which VGC's will/won't WM work with?" question, please let me know. Thanks for the help thus far.
Oct 31, 2014, 1:05 pm
#1196
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 69
If it was me, I would hold off on trying to spend your way to the Companion Pass until 2015, since if you do it now, it will only last a year, but if you wait until January, it will last almost two years.
I'm assuming you want CP for both you and your wife because you have 2 kids you want to designate as companions?
I'm assuming you want CP for both you and your wife because you have 2 kids you want to designate as companions?
Oct 31, 2014, 1:38 pm
#1197
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
If it was me, I would hold off on trying to spend your way to the Companion Pass until 2015, since if you do it now, it will only last a year, but if you wait until January, it will last almost two years.
I'm assuming you want CP for both you and your wife because you have 2 kids you want to designate as companions?
I'm assuming you want CP for both you and your wife because you have 2 kids you want to designate as companions?
Now the Target option seems pretty enticing, since I have a fee-free ATM at my disposal, but I'm not a fan of giving them my DL and SSN.
Nov 2, 2014, 4:35 pm
#1200
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6
Ok, I'm new to learning about this stuff (spent 18 of the last 24 hours reading about AOR, MS, etc).
Already assuming I am able to clear out bonuses within the original time frame. Some CC's (mainly chase ink) provide very strong cash back programs. This sentence below made me think:
Earn 5X points per $1 on the first $50,000 spent in combined purchases at office supply stores and on cellular phone, landline, internet and cable TV services each account anniversary year.
Currently the bonus offer is 50K for $5K spend. Assume I spend 5K in month 1. That equates to $500 worth of points. Then from months 2-12 I spend 4K a month on MS through GC's at various office supply stores. $4,000 x 5% cashback = $200/month in cashback just for loading up. In that year someone can get $2,700 in cashback rewards after $49K is spent (average 5.5% cash back). Excluding some random fees occurring and annual fees..
As mentioned before, my initial thoughts were that people used MS to clear sign-up rewards and I haven't seen much of people continuing using it to get additional reward money back. Is there something I'm missing here? Or do most people keep getting new cards because the sign-up reward is more lucrative than just grinding high cash-back offers? Or is it because after awhile it will become quite obvious after awhile that MS is happening based on consistent buying patterns?
Already assuming I am able to clear out bonuses within the original time frame. Some CC's (mainly chase ink) provide very strong cash back programs. This sentence below made me think:
Earn 5X points per $1 on the first $50,000 spent in combined purchases at office supply stores and on cellular phone, landline, internet and cable TV services each account anniversary year.
Currently the bonus offer is 50K for $5K spend. Assume I spend 5K in month 1. That equates to $500 worth of points. Then from months 2-12 I spend 4K a month on MS through GC's at various office supply stores. $4,000 x 5% cashback = $200/month in cashback just for loading up. In that year someone can get $2,700 in cashback rewards after $49K is spent (average 5.5% cash back). Excluding some random fees occurring and annual fees..
As mentioned before, my initial thoughts were that people used MS to clear sign-up rewards and I haven't seen much of people continuing using it to get additional reward money back. Is there something I'm missing here? Or do most people keep getting new cards because the sign-up reward is more lucrative than just grinding high cash-back offers? Or is it because after awhile it will become quite obvious after awhile that MS is happening based on consistent buying patterns?