Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:06 pm
#1126
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 33
MS really isn't for everyone. If it doesn't seem to click for you, maybe your time would be more fruitfully spent in other endeavors.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:09 pm
#1127
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 14
I just need a little bit of help putting in a solid plan. Rather than trial and error, I was hoping that I could build on some of the knowledge gained here.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:11 pm
#1128
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,374
Welcome to FlyerTalk.
See previous poster.
Me? $0.
Step 1. Save money.
Step 2. Buy the flights and hotels you want.
This way you won't need to worry about:
1. Fraud investigations.
2. Bank account closures.
3. Flight and hotel award inventory.
Contrary to most first posters, I've literally spent 40 hours on this board reading this week and I have to say I'm still kind of lost.
How much MS are you guys actually doing?
If someone can, please help me put a plan together for 2015 to earn two international week long vacations for me and my girl.
Step 2. Buy the flights and hotels you want.
This way you won't need to worry about:
1. Fraud investigations.
2. Bank account closures.
3. Flight and hotel award inventory.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:13 pm
#1129
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 85
1. What would be a good goal for MS per year for me?
What you're comfortable with and have time for.
2. I also can't seem to figure out what the best method is for your consistent (non bonus tied) MS month in and month out
Depends on the cards you have. There are flat 2% cards and cards like Arrival that gives 2.1 or 2.2% (I forget the exact numbers) on travel redemptions.
3. Would a good method for MS be to buy AMEX GC online (get cashback rebate) then buy VGC at WM and then convert in a mix to money order and Serve loads?
On another note: This thread is probably best merged with the new to MS megathread.
That's one method. Depends on your location. WM may or may not be receptive. Grocery stores are more dependable.
What you're comfortable with and have time for.
2. I also can't seem to figure out what the best method is for your consistent (non bonus tied) MS month in and month out
Depends on the cards you have. There are flat 2% cards and cards like Arrival that gives 2.1 or 2.2% (I forget the exact numbers) on travel redemptions.
3. Would a good method for MS be to buy AMEX GC online (get cashback rebate) then buy VGC at WM and then convert in a mix to money order and Serve loads?
On another note: This thread is probably best merged with the new to MS megathread.
That's one method. Depends on your location. WM may or may not be receptive. Grocery stores are more dependable.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:20 pm
#1130
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 14
I guess I should have detailed in my original post that I have plenty of money in the bank (to float any GC purchases) and am not scared of risk (monetary that is, but I certainly don't want to be on any gov't/financial institution radar).
I just want to put in the hours and reap the reward without ruffling any feathers.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:43 pm
#1131
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 319
I hope not, but understand if it does.
I guess I should have detailed in my original post that I have plenty of money in the bank (to float any GC purchases) and am not scared of risk (monetary that is, but I certainly don't want to be on any gov't/financial institution radar).
I just want to put in the hours and reap the reward without ruffling any feathers.
I guess I should have detailed in my original post that I have plenty of money in the bank (to float any GC purchases) and am not scared of risk (monetary that is, but I certainly don't want to be on any gov't/financial institution radar).
I just want to put in the hours and reap the reward without ruffling any feathers.
Oct 26, 2014, 7:54 pm
#1132
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
If you've got cash lying around, then what are you waiting for.
Also my girl and I just booked a month long trip to europe on sign up bonus' alone, I'd start there.
Also my girl and I just booked a month long trip to europe on sign up bonus' alone, I'd start there.
Oct 26, 2014, 8:04 pm
#1133
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chyona
Programs: Anywhere I can ski...
Posts: 401
Greetings. Contrary to most first posters, I've literally spent 40 hours on this board reading this week and I have to say I'm still kind of lost.
Few questions I can use some help on.
How much MS are you guys actually doing? I have ok annual income (150k). What would be a good goal for MS per year for me? Is 150k a good target? 300K?
I just can't figure out how much point revenue some of you are generating and how you are doing it (with the caps on Serve, limitations on VGC purchases, etc.).
I also can't seem to figure out what the best method is for your consistent (non bonus tied) MS month in and month out.
Would a good method for MS be to buy AMEX GC online (get cashback rebate) then buy VGC at WM and then convert in a mix to money order and Serve loads? It's hard to imagine doing $20k a month via these methods but if it's possible, I would like to know how to do it.
If someone can, please help me put a plan together for 2015 to earn two international week long vacations for me and my girl.
Apologies for not being able to figure this all out... but even after a week of reading, I'm still overwhelmed!
Thanks.
Few questions I can use some help on.
How much MS are you guys actually doing? I have ok annual income (150k). What would be a good goal for MS per year for me? Is 150k a good target? 300K?
I just can't figure out how much point revenue some of you are generating and how you are doing it (with the caps on Serve, limitations on VGC purchases, etc.).
I also can't seem to figure out what the best method is for your consistent (non bonus tied) MS month in and month out.
Would a good method for MS be to buy AMEX GC online (get cashback rebate) then buy VGC at WM and then convert in a mix to money order and Serve loads? It's hard to imagine doing $20k a month via these methods but if it's possible, I would like to know how to do it.
If someone can, please help me put a plan together for 2015 to earn two international week long vacations for me and my girl.
Apologies for not being able to figure this all out... but even after a week of reading, I'm still overwhelmed!
Thanks.
I hope not, but understand if it does.
I guess I should have detailed in my original post that I have plenty of money in the bank (to float any GC purchases) and am not scared of risk (monetary that is, but I certainly don't want to be on any gov't/financial institution radar).
I just want to put in the hours and reap the reward without ruffling any feathers.
I guess I should have detailed in my original post that I have plenty of money in the bank (to float any GC purchases) and am not scared of risk (monetary that is, but I certainly don't want to be on any gov't/financial institution radar).
I just want to put in the hours and reap the reward without ruffling any feathers.
A. I am confident you can pay for the trip out of pocket, OP (I assume you do not have kids since you mention you and your gf and i see the total cost of the trip @ 4-5K which is about +-%3 of your stated income)
B. Me personally, I will not help you
, i do not know about other FT'ers but I feel the only person that will help you is you.C. Good luck! OP ^
Oct 26, 2014, 8:08 pm
#1134
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The Phoenix Desert
Programs: Hilton Cubic Zirconia, Marriott Fools Gold
Posts: 1,692
MS is trial and error. Some strategies work for some but not others. As someone else mentioned, your best bet is the sign-up bonus route. Figure out where you want to go, what airlines can get you there, what hotels you can stay at and build your apps around that.
Oct 26, 2014, 8:15 pm
#1135
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Northwest, United
Posts: 3,256
Well, obviously, with so much effort you've invested, you are owed some simple answers to your questions. OK, here goes...
Nobody can tell you what's right for you. Everyone's life, interests, risk tolerance, comfort level, and willingness to waste time chasing points is different. You will have to decide that's right for you.
Don't expect others to spoon-feed you everything you need to know or do.
Oh, and DON'T CALL.
Oct 26, 2014, 8:28 pm
#1136
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
Wow - I've been on FT for several years and all I can say is that I'm disappointed in some of the responses to the OP.
Usually MSers complain that no one has done any homework and wants everything handed to them on a silver platter, yet the OP said he did one entire week's worth of reading and is still confused, reaches out and is still shut down by MSers.
To the OP - yes it can be confusing (understatement t of the century). It might help if you had more specific questions 're the parts you don't understand. In fairness to the regulars, they need a bot more than free trip to work with. But I give you credit for the homework you've done to date and wish you luck.
Cheers
Usually MSers complain that no one has done any homework and wants everything handed to them on a silver platter, yet the OP said he did one entire week's worth of reading and is still confused, reaches out and is still shut down by MSers.
To the OP - yes it can be confusing (understatement t of the century). It might help if you had more specific questions 're the parts you don't understand. In fairness to the regulars, they need a bot more than free trip to work with. But I give you credit for the homework you've done to date and wish you luck.
Cheers
Oct 26, 2014, 8:38 pm
#1137
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 427
Just start somewhere and start slow. Get your feet wet for several months at least before you determine how much of this, if any, you are comfortable with, then possibly scale out or up.
Oct 26, 2014, 9:10 pm
#1138
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 14
Damn, typed up a big reply and then it didn't go through.
Anyway, thanks for the help from those willing to help. Kind of surprised at some of the responses but hey, it is the interweb after all.
Quick story, I'm sure some variation of which we've all heard... few years ago I was with my friend and their kid of all places going to a Walmart in Vegas to do some shopping. We walked by a really nice Mercedes and the kid said "Why would anybody driving that Benz shop at Walmart?"
I replied "Maybe they have a Benz because they shop at Walmart."
Just because I can afford an economy class European vacation and stay at a comfortable, economical hotel, it doesn't mean I don't want to fly first class and stay at a five star resort. I always have and always will try to get the most possible out of every dollar that I spend. It's a big part of the success I've had in life.
In my previous life I had a job where I traveled all over the world first/business class, lounge access, free upgrades all over. Now I have a 'regular' job where I don't travel and get two weeks a year to relax and I want to enjoy it as much as possible. Traveling is my favorite hobby and I only get two weeks a year so I have to make sure to make them count.
@nwflyboy - Not looking for any handouts, but looking for help. I would imagine that internet forums would be pretty quiet if people didn't ask and answer questions. Don't you think?
Anyway, thanks for the help from those willing to help. Kind of surprised at some of the responses but hey, it is the interweb after all.
Quick story, I'm sure some variation of which we've all heard... few years ago I was with my friend and their kid of all places going to a Walmart in Vegas to do some shopping. We walked by a really nice Mercedes and the kid said "Why would anybody driving that Benz shop at Walmart?"
I replied "Maybe they have a Benz because they shop at Walmart."
Just because I can afford an economy class European vacation and stay at a comfortable, economical hotel, it doesn't mean I don't want to fly first class and stay at a five star resort. I always have and always will try to get the most possible out of every dollar that I spend. It's a big part of the success I've had in life.
In my previous life I had a job where I traveled all over the world first/business class, lounge access, free upgrades all over. Now I have a 'regular' job where I don't travel and get two weeks a year to relax and I want to enjoy it as much as possible. Traveling is my favorite hobby and I only get two weeks a year so I have to make sure to make them count.
@nwflyboy - Not looking for any handouts, but looking for help. I would imagine that internet forums would be pretty quiet if people didn't ask and answer questions. Don't you think?
Oct 26, 2014, 9:18 pm
#1139
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 137
Welcome to FT - it is a big website with tons of info to absorb, so realize it will take time. See my join date and my paltry # of posts - I was a longtime lurker.
I started with a goal in mind - a trip to Europe next summer. Looked at award charts for various airlines that fly from my home airport so see what kind of numbers I needed to hit, which ones were the best "deals." Signed up for credit cards that would help me reach those numbers, and doing MS mostly just to get that min spend to earn the bonuses.
Some MSers take it to a totally different level to earn supplementary income, and I think some of them are getting bit back in recent days(accounts being closed, cash advance charges), so decide what you're willing to risk before jumping.
Read here on FT a lot, but also do your own google searches and see what comes up. Good luck!
I started with a goal in mind - a trip to Europe next summer. Looked at award charts for various airlines that fly from my home airport so see what kind of numbers I needed to hit, which ones were the best "deals." Signed up for credit cards that would help me reach those numbers, and doing MS mostly just to get that min spend to earn the bonuses.
Some MSers take it to a totally different level to earn supplementary income, and I think some of them are getting bit back in recent days(accounts being closed, cash advance charges), so decide what you're willing to risk before jumping.
Read here on FT a lot, but also do your own google searches and see what comes up. Good luck!
Oct 26, 2014, 10:02 pm
#1140
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
Pokerpot it seems you have received a nice taste of some Flyertalk Fire. Do not judge intelligence by post count nor become discouraged by the comments of those with high ones. As one of the above posters has stated, set a travel goal for yourself and always remember that you are at the mercy of the award availability gods (unless using paper). The methods which you see on this forum have essentially gone viral, sadly abused and overused by the MS community and are likely to be closed with little to no notice. What this means is that what works for you on Monday morning could be gone...by Monday morning. Thinking outside the box is the KEY to large scale MS.