Nov 12, 2019, 6:52 am
Last edit by: ACflyerDE
The programme will now change from 1 January 2022 (postponed again and it will not start before 2023)
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
https://www.miles-and-more.com/row/e...ts/update.html
All the changes are listed on the official M&M Website: https://www.miles-and-more.com/de/en...ts/update.html
Starting 2021, the system for earning status changes. From then on, status points are earned by cabin and segment flown:
Regional flights will earn 5 points in Economy and Premium Economy, 10 points in First and Business class per segment
Intercontinental flights, ie flights between two IATA regions, will earn 15 points in Economy, 20 in Premium Economy, 50 in Business and 70 in First class segments
There will be two kinds of points : qualifying points (QP): earned with M&M integrated partners (LH/EW/LX/OS/LO/OU/LG/etc) and normal points : earned with other partners like the airlines in the Star Alliance. QP can be earned on LH Airrail train segments, but are capped at 40/120/250 per year for FTL/SEN/HON.
'Frequent Traveler' (FTL, equivalent to *S) status is given to members with 160 points (of which atleast 80 need to be QP), 'Senator' (SEN, *G) to members with 480 points (of which atleast 240 need to be QP). HON Circle (HON) is awarded after reaching 1500 QP in one year.
SEN will receive two evouchers upon qualification each year, HON 4 evouchers. There will be no rollover of QP, but for members who exceed the qualification QP level, M&M will grant the following benefits:
FTL: Mileage exchange for QP at 200 qualifying points
SEN: 2 eVoucher at 700 qualifying points; 15,000 award miles at 1,000 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 1,300 qualifying points
HON:2 eVoucher at 1,800 qualifying points; 30,000 award miles at 2,100 qualifying points; 2 eVoucher at 2,400 qualifying points; Frequent Traveller partner card at 2,700 qualifying points; Senator partner card at 3,000 qualifying points
The system of status miles, HON Circle miles, select miles, and status star points will be abolished at the end of 2020. Any status earned prior to that will be honored. Any HON Circle miles earned in 2020 will be credited as QP in the ratio 200:1. Status star points earned till end of 2020 will converted to lifetime QP at a ration of 2:1.
Members with a lifetime QP of 7500 will be awarded FTL for their lifetime. If members reach 10000 lifetime QP and have been SEN for at least a cumulative 10 years they will be awarded lifetime SEN status.
Status is always valid for the year of qualification and one additional year. HON and SEN will have a 'soft landing' ie if they cannot requalify for status, they will get a year of SEN or FTL respectively.
New qualifying points system for status from 2024
Dec 9, 2020, 2:24 am
#796
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BE
Programs: SN SEN*, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Spire Elite
Posts: 59
Just received this [Dutch] e-mail saying that they 'can't commit to introducing the new programme as of January 2022' and that the old system remains in place. .
If the old systems remains in place for 2022 as well, I *think* this is good news for my situation. Current card expiry 02/2023. If I understand well, thanks to all input from fellow forum folks, these are 'my' options.
Try to re-qualify under the old system in 2021 or 2022 (2 years period, 2021 will be hard to achieve, will try nonetheless) and would get status extended for 2023 and 2024 (card expiry 2/2025).
As things currently stand the new system will start January 1st 2023 (not in wrting in the e-mail, but I guess they have no other option).
My first qualification year under the new system would be 2024 (or 480 points in Jan/Feb 2025) to enjoy senator privileges in 2025 which then will be a yearly hunt for points
If the old systems remains in place for 2022 as well, I *think* this is good news for my situation. Current card expiry 02/2023. If I understand well, thanks to all input from fellow forum folks, these are 'my' options.
Try to re-qualify under the old system in 2021 or 2022 (2 years period, 2021 will be hard to achieve, will try nonetheless) and would get status extended for 2023 and 2024 (card expiry 2/2025).
As things currently stand the new system will start January 1st 2023 (not in wrting in the e-mail, but I guess they have no other option).
My first qualification year under the new system would be 2024 (or 480 points in Jan/Feb 2025) to enjoy senator privileges in 2025 which then will be a yearly hunt for points
Dec 9, 2020, 2:55 am
#797
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
Programs: LH HON***,UA,BA.EK Gold,AV.
Posts: 11,663
Great news 👍
The current system works for me
The current system works for me
Dec 9, 2020, 5:00 am
#798
Join Date: May 2018
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 1,506
I'm liking this too. My re-qualification was 21/22 and I was contemplating how to make sure it happened in 2021 to get the two year extension. Now I still have 2022 up my sleeve...
Dec 9, 2020, 5:47 am
#799
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: DE
Posts: 265
I think it's obvious that some would have benefited from the new status earning scheme while others would have lost out.
In any case, I find the postponements are a lost opportunity. The new programme would have been cleaner. I think it would have increased engagement, too. The solid status points earning in eco and premium eco seems particularly attractive for newbies. To paraphrase a loyalty expert: You have a 21-year old kid flying a little, let him earn a silver card, and suddenly he's turned to the dark side and moved from socialist to capitalist. And as he gets older, you suck him in more and further increase his engagement with the brand.
A crisis is the best time to "disrupt." I think they should have extended all elites for a year in April or May 2020 and let the new programme start in 2021 as originally intended. The only change should have been covid-induced reduced thresholds. Sure, that would have given a lot of people a "dead year". But even the elites would have had some incentive to aim for a higher status level due to the reduced elite thresholds. Plus, you would have had a clean and modern programme. Again, I view it as an opportunity lost. It is becoming clearer and clearer how little potential to innovate LH and M&M have got.
BA has got the best loyalty programme in Europe. LH might have got the bigger network than AFKL or the better F than BA, but it certainly has a worse loyalty programme than BA as well as AFKL.
In any case, I find the postponements are a lost opportunity. The new programme would have been cleaner. I think it would have increased engagement, too. The solid status points earning in eco and premium eco seems particularly attractive for newbies. To paraphrase a loyalty expert: You have a 21-year old kid flying a little, let him earn a silver card, and suddenly he's turned to the dark side and moved from socialist to capitalist. And as he gets older, you suck him in more and further increase his engagement with the brand.
A crisis is the best time to "disrupt." I think they should have extended all elites for a year in April or May 2020 and let the new programme start in 2021 as originally intended. The only change should have been covid-induced reduced thresholds. Sure, that would have given a lot of people a "dead year". But even the elites would have had some incentive to aim for a higher status level due to the reduced elite thresholds. Plus, you would have had a clean and modern programme. Again, I view it as an opportunity lost. It is becoming clearer and clearer how little potential to innovate LH and M&M have got.
BA has got the best loyalty programme in Europe. LH might have got the bigger network than AFKL or the better F than BA, but it certainly has a worse loyalty programme than BA as well as AFKL.
Dec 9, 2020, 5:53 am
#800
Join Date: Apr 2016
Programs: LH SEN, HH Dia, Accor Plat
Posts: 127
It may not be a choice to postpone as well. Cost cutting may have happened on the IT side of the new programs where contracts have been terminated to save money until the sun shines again
Dec 9, 2020, 5:59 am
#801
Join Date: May 2018
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 1,506
In the current scheme the more expensive fare classes in eco / prem eco have status earning that is probably too generous. Under the new scheme they get dragged down and are not that lucrative.
If you were on the cheap eco fares you might see a boost but it will be tough to qualify given the FTL / SEN points thresholds.
On the other hand the current scheme is very stingy for the cheaper business fare classes. Under the new scheme they get boosted up.
Like you said, winners and losers. But I don't think the new scheme is all that great if you are only flying eco / prem eco.
Last edited by supine; Dec 9, 2020 at 6:08 am
Dec 9, 2020, 6:36 am
#802
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: DE
Posts: 265
M&M has already made a big investment, including in IT. Why not cash in on that once flying picks up in Q2 or Q3 of next year? LH still got around €10 billion in free cash.
Actually, the lack of stratification by fare class seems to have the opposite effect.
In the current scheme the more expensive fare classes in eco / prem eco have status earning that is probably too generous. Under the new scheme they get dragged down and are not that lucrative.
In the current scheme the more expensive fare classes in eco / prem eco have status earning that is probably too generous. Under the new scheme they get dragged down and are not that lucrative.
Most people are frequent flyers for at most ten years. And only 10 percent of programme members are frequent flyers. Furthermore, those that are frequent flyers tend to have a demanding job, a wife and kids, and hobbies other than miles and points. Yes, the SEN and HON in particular usually aren't stupid people so they'll figure out some aspects of the booking class system. But overall, the complexity of the system is not well-suited for average elite. And it's even worse when it comes to engaging new members in light of the fact I mentioned previously. In reality, frequent flying ends. There are few people which are frequent flyers throughout their entire career and beyond.
Dec 9, 2020, 6:38 am
#803
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 134
Actually, the lack of stratification by fare class seems to have the opposite effect.
In the current scheme the more expensive fare classes in eco / prem eco have status earning that is probably too generous. Under the new scheme they get dragged down and are not that lucrative.
If you were on the cheap eco fares you might see a boost but it will be tough to qualify given the FTL / SEN points thresholds.
On the other hand the current scheme is very stingy for the cheaper business fare classes. Under the new scheme they get boosted up.
Like you said, winners and losers. But I don't think the new scheme is all that great if you are only flying eco / prem eco.
In the current scheme the more expensive fare classes in eco / prem eco have status earning that is probably too generous. Under the new scheme they get dragged down and are not that lucrative.
If you were on the cheap eco fares you might see a boost but it will be tough to qualify given the FTL / SEN points thresholds.
On the other hand the current scheme is very stingy for the cheaper business fare classes. Under the new scheme they get boosted up.
Like you said, winners and losers. But I don't think the new scheme is all that great if you are only flying eco / prem eco.
Dec 9, 2020, 6:56 am
#804
Join Date: May 2018
Location: FRA
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 1,506
We should probably take further discussion back to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luft...us-2021-a.html
Dec 9, 2020, 7:03 am
#805
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,517
Dec 9, 2020, 7:10 am
#806
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: LH SEN, FB Plat., HH D.
Posts: 5,050
Any news of what happens to LT SEN?
Thanks,
Thanks,
Dec 9, 2020, 7:10 am
#807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
Points based system unfair
The points based system would have led to some strange anomalies: For example 4 P return flights from an EU location via FRA to North Africa would have earned you SEN.
Also flying F would not have been sufficiently honored (70 points) but flying in cheap P encouraged (50 points).
The main problem will be that there will be much less SEN and even fewer HON by end February 2021. IMHO M&less should have extended all status validities by one year, not only the ones expiring in February 2021.
This said, I couldn't care less. I am out of the game as Lifetime SEN and will choose now whatever suits me best and the pandemic possibly blowing away many dreams in the next six month we all have other problems.
Also flying F would not have been sufficiently honored (70 points) but flying in cheap P encouraged (50 points).
The main problem will be that there will be much less SEN and even fewer HON by end February 2021. IMHO M&less should have extended all status validities by one year, not only the ones expiring in February 2021.
This said, I couldn't care less. I am out of the game as Lifetime SEN and will choose now whatever suits me best and the pandemic possibly blowing away many dreams in the next six month we all have other problems.
Dec 9, 2020, 7:33 am
#808
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,593
It will be relief all round for the Polish HON MEP's that they don't need to "think" of a further reason to fly to BRU in C. I could have given the good news to PiS's Jadwiga Wisniewska when I saw her in Polonez the other day.
If my maths is correct, our dear Comrades need to fly 30 times in C/D (whats "P" class they would ask...
) to BRU per year via a LH Hub (10k per trip with E Bonus) on the current system. That would have gone up to 37.5 trips a year and even more scuppered if you can no longer excuse yourself to fly via WAW due to the previous situation of 0 HON miles in Y- Polish nationalism and all.
If my maths is correct, our dear Comrades need to fly 30 times in C/D (whats "P" class they would ask...
) to BRU per year via a LH Hub (10k per trip with E Bonus) on the current system. That would have gone up to 37.5 trips a year and even more scuppered if you can no longer excuse yourself to fly via WAW due to the previous situation of 0 HON miles in Y- Polish nationalism and all.
Dec 9, 2020, 7:34 am
#809
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,196
M&M had already put two years work into this before launching the change. Now the implementation moves into the future. My guess is 2023, when they always expected to be back at 2019 levels.
Yesterday in the call I specifically asked if the move is to save money on the roll out or if the new system will mean more costs and was postponed because of that. It seems the new system will not be more expensive than the old system. The reason for the delay was purely to save the money on the roll out (for now). LH Group just doesn't have the ressources and cash to roll out the new programme and make the investments in infrastructure to switch over.
Yesterday in the call I specifically asked if the move is to save money on the roll out or if the new system will mean more costs and was postponed because of that. It seems the new system will not be more expensive than the old system. The reason for the delay was purely to save the money on the roll out (for now). LH Group just doesn't have the ressources and cash to roll out the new programme and make the investments in infrastructure to switch over.
Dec 9, 2020, 8:20 am
#810
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: DE
Posts: 265
But a new elite qualification system should more than pay for itself. And it should do so quickly, it's nothing like an aircraft which you write off over more than a decade.
A loyalty programme is supposed to change people's behavior. But it's very hard to change the behavior of people who don't fully understand what they must do to receive the carrot (=elite benefits).
There are two things LH must fix: The need to provide a seamless experience for the corporate traveller and they need to provide simplicity and clarity to him. They are working on the seamlessness, and we are starting to see the results (e.g., partner awards being bookable online). But we're not seeing any progress on the simplification front. Again, this is really bad and their competitors are doing it much better.
The new programme is beautiful. The app can tell the customer "why don't you book one more international trip as a weekend getaway this December and you'll be FTL!" The old system leads to things like "if you fly in booking class 1, you need just one more trip; but in 2, it's two more trips, and in 3, it's four more trips."