FlyerLX

Thanks Oliver... just saw this... sorry for irrelevant question on other thread...

The new structure is now pushed so far into the future... My hunch is that we may now never see it.

oliver2002

It seems they still think its required but are balking at the cost of implementing it at this time when they are bleeding cash. The reason no new date was announced is that giving out a date incurs legal liabilities. It seems (to me) that there are nutpots out there who book tickets based on the announcements and then threaten to sue if they don't get status because the date was changed. 🤦‍♂️

Grog

I do believe this is how they think, but the thinking escapes logic.

If they do think it's required and they're now bleeding cash, this is EXACTLY the time to implement it. I say this because, if they actually anticipate reaching a point where they haven't yet implemented it, but they're also not bleeding cash, logic would then be telling us they don't need to implement this at all.

People making bookings based on announcements shouldn't scare Lufthansa. It should actually be EXACTLY what Lufthansa should want right now. (Unless there is a hidden agenda by LH and they actually don't want to encourage advanced bookings right now?)

oliver2002

Sure, but they are not bleeding cash because they have crappy status system... there is a pandemic out there...
The speculative bookings are of no use... it seems people booked dozens of runs to N. Africa for the new era which all got cancelled (ie refunded) when the winter schedule was cleaned up in late summer.

keitherson

My guess is 2024, or never.

If it was 2023 I think they would have announced it.

This makes reaching SEN in 2021 a sweet spot, as status will be valid until Feb 2024 and you can requalify pending news of any program updates.

FlyerLX

I find it likely that we will never see the new structure. They will keep the old one for now. In the coming years, as the trend (even from before the pandemic) is towards “get what you pay for” for each individual flight, rather than long-term loyalty, I think it’s even possible that they may scrap (or withdraw from) M+M altogether...

It’s also possible that, by 2024 or so, they will decide they need a loyalty programme completely different to the old one and the shelved one... We will just have to wait and see.

chris63

Since there is no date for the new system to start, presumably status stars continue to accumulate towards LT SEN & the existing rules apply

Dave_C

I think that just goes to show that clearly two years designing the new system wasn't enough! I did look at those and even pulled together an Excel sheet with a bunch of flights, but never pulled the trigger. If they didn't model this kind of behaviour and the effect it would generate, then they really need to find another job!

The point of a decent programme is to incentivise more travel than would be necessary, ideally to times and routes that would be less viable. The BA Exec Club does this pretty well. Look at the targetted offers going out to earn Gold Upgrade Vouchers for earning 250 or 500 tier points by 31st March.

M&M really isn't doing anything at all - now is exactly the time to bring additional incentives to travel with Lufthansa Group over the competition.

behuman

[QUOTE=oliver2002;32875450] t seems people booked dozens of runs to N. Africa for the new era which all got cancelled /QUOTE]

4 P roundtrips ex EU via FRA to N. Africa would have made too many new SEN. With a couple of thousand Euros spent each, not interesting for LH group. This new system would have massively devaluated status and will hopefully never see the day.

Dave_C

[QUOTE=behuman;32875642]In theory, yes, however once you actually look of the logistics of the trips, its not that easy or pleasant. The times for a lot of the rotations were horrible, limited ability to do back to backs, plus long sectors in uncomfortable NEK seats meant the reality wasn't great. Especially if you wanted to do them enough for HON, it was very time consuming.

Comatose.Captain

I doubt that. Of course, LH has followed the lead of others in trying to make more money by upselling customers and allowing them to customize the product. But upselling and customization rely on customer data. They typical flyer does not want to see hundreds of a la carte options. He wants to see the two, three, or four most relevant to him. Data analytics is required to deliver on that relevance and it works way better if the customer is part of the loyalty programme.

Besides, behavior modification works. Sure, it's possible LH and *A push this model of "a la carte" pricing further so that at some point, lounge access isn't free any more for elites in eco. However, I'm skeptical this will happen, as too much money is being made from changing the behavior of elites through providing status benefits. Should lounge access be abolished, the most extreme case I can envision is like a subscription-based model in which elites get a discount. You know, a club membership costs EUR 600 p.a. And there's a 25% discount for FTL, a 50% discount for SEN and a 75 or 100% discount for HON.

Ultimately, you need the carrot provided by the elite benefits to a degree, though, to modify the behavior of corporate travellers. I think behavior modification cannot rely on award miles/redeemable miles alone. Revenue and inventory management have gotten better. I know load factors have been abysmal in 2020. But give it another year or so and we'll start to hop back on the trend towards better capacity utilization. Once again, we'll be in the situation of 2019 in which airlines have fewer seats which can be filled at low opportunity cost for awards.

Thus, I believe there continues to be a role for a loyalty programme with the elite tier characteristics. And I don't believe this cash-bleed argument when it comes to the new programme at all. Aviation is a very capital-intensive and labor-intensive business. The cost of implementing the new programme (and it's not just IT: retraining of staff is going to be a huge factor) is small in the grand scheme of things. I believe with a better structure, they could have achieved substantial incremental books as early as next summer.

Why do I think they pulled the plug? Well.... I think they are very conservative and very much in the mindset of having a mature programme and mature product. And it's less risky to see if you find ways to cut costs a little here and there than to make a bold move. It's somewhat understandable. They had a good thing going for a long time. They have a huge member base (especially in DE-CH-AT). Their HON status was long seen as aspiring and the red SEN tag is still sort of a status symbol for the older generation. But I think many parts of M&M are just outdated and need to be modernized.

(Sorry for overlong post.)

roc83

It is very interesting that as a HON I have not received any e-mail about the updates yet . Seems LH has a different view of which customers should be informed first

daumueller

i got mine a few days ago - did you check junk mail?

more4less

Thanks chris63,

This is what I originally though but probably LT SEN turns to the old system, ie only by invitation when you are over 60.

We shall see...

chris63

Same for me & nothing in junk mail either.... neither have other members of my Family, SEN .....