azepine00

Sorry you have to deal with this mess...

Perhaps you should try to work with seller to trace it with Hyatt rather than filing in SCC - given so many accounts of GC funds vanishing it is very possible that the seller sold it to you as advertised (and if not, i have no clue how you can prove it at this point...)

If that person still sells hyatt GC or anything else on ebay they should be interested in sorting this out rather than risking reputation... Perhaps hyatt will send a replacement if this can be traced as with many other reported cases.

It is really Hyatt we should blame for continuing problems with their currency - they should find a way to fix this...

Kalboz

Thank you

Hyatt has taken a totally adversarial stance since I contacted them citing the original buyer's privacy and confidentiality. Which is fine and dandy except it might be the original buyer who is committing the fraud. To be honest with you, I find that Hyatt is ultimately responsible for this mess that many find themselves in. The T&C of these E Gift Cards are written in such flimsy manner as to allow such fraud to be perpetrated.

seawolf

I get the sense we are discussing two different things. Initially you question why Hyatt is allowing a secondary market to which I reply Hyatt (nor any gift card retailer) can not prevent a secondary market with the way gift cards are structured. I'm still on this topic.

However your second comment seems to suggest you are actually questioning why Hyatt is not preventing fraud and not really about why Hyatt is not preventing secondary market. Even Hyatt gift cards direct from Hyatt are getting their value drained. This issue is not because of the secondary market. As discussed earlier in this thread, the issue is Hyatt's gift card algorithm have been compromised.

SportsTech

Seems like (almost) everyone missed the bolded line: Kalboz checked the value of the cards after he got them from the eBay seller, and they were valid.

Kalboz, if the facts are as you presented in your first post, I don't believe you have any claim against elizabethperez55: she sold something you wanted, at a price you were willing to pay, and you got what you paid for. Your complaint is with Hyatt, the seller of the defective merchandise (ie a gift card that has been compromised). I am sympathetic: I got burned for $500 by 3 cards I bought on Cardcash that got wiped out, and I was angry with Cardcash for not backing them up past their 45 day guarantee - but the reality is, Hyatt is the at-fault entity, not the card reseller. You're wasting your time going to small claims here, they'll throw this case out in about 10 seconds.

And if Hyatt reps are listening - this is shameful behavior on Hyatt's part, and terrible for the brand. You got the money for these cards, and you've let many of your best customers get ripped off by your ineptitude - and even facilitated this by selling in bulk at massive discounts to Cardcash and other major gift card resellers. You should make the people who bought these cards whole in some form!

josephstern

You are completely disallowing for the possibility that elizabethperez55 drained these a month after the sale?

It's most definitely a possibility.

SportsTech

Sure it's possible - but no more likely than a theft via algorithm hacking, and impossible to prove in any case. Small claims court is going to ask for more than "I bought it from her and 8 months later it didn't work (but it would have worked the day I received it)". The fact I'm pointing out is, she delivered what she sold: a gift card with a balance. Did she then steal the balance somehow? Not a clue. I am disallowing nothing; I am commenting on the likelihood of Kalboz recouping anything from the seller via USPS or Small Claims court, which is pretty much zero. I am also saying that, in my opinion, Hyatt is the culpable party in every instance where the algorithm got hacked - which is the case for almost all of the eGift cards and most of the physical cards.

Mary2e

One think I just thought of.... Hyatt should know exactly where these stolen certificates were used as well as the name of the guest, if they were checked in. They could easily reverse the gift card balances and charge the card on file for the value that was used on the certificate.

If they're called on it, they could say it was a stolen card and to contact the person who gave it to them.

josephstern

I agree that the likelihood of recouping the lost funds via small claims or USPS is pretty close to nil.

But I don't necessarily think that Hyatt is fully culpable either, nor do I think it's provable that they are responsible in this third-party-to-third-party transaction.

Unfortunately, sometimes you just lose and you have to eat it. I think that's the case here. Buying gift cards - especially on eBay - is a seriously buyer-beware situation for many reasons. It might be high reward, but it's definitely high risk.

josephstern

So then let's say that was some other eBay buyer. They bought it from another seller back in January also.

Then what?

Then we have the same situation, but not with Kalboz.

Mary2e

It goes back to the person who used it improperly, no matter how many times it was sold.

It's not the true owner's problem, particularly if it was verified there was a balance, that someone stole the number.

Receiving stolen goods doesn't not absolve someone from responsibility.

Hyatt knows where they were used and by whom.

josephstern

My point is, if it was sold twice on eBay, for example, and each buyer independently checked the balance and paid in good faith, who is the true owner?

Mary2e

The person who purchased it first.

josephstern

Seem arbitrary.

And it certainly may not have been Kalboz.

How would we know at this point?

Mary2e

Well, someone has the info.

Also, I don't know how often these numbers were sold more than once. I think it's more a case of the cards being drained almost right away.

In any case, my point is that Hyatt has the information and could use it to make people whole.

josephstern

Do you mean the original purchaser from Hyatt or from one of its authorized outlets?

Because I can buy Hyatt gift cards at Office Depot and I'm pretty sure Hyatt would have no idea of who I am when I do that.