lewende

I am surprised to find out there are so many people still having (redeemable) points balance after 3/28.

pinniped

Weird discussion here placing values on how you earn the points.

I look at it this way:

(a) I'm paying something to acquire any point that lands in my account. There are no free points. I'm paying in the form of cash or personal information, one way or another. Whether it's a signup bonus, a regular credit card purchase, a hotel stay, or a rental car...I'm buying the points. Short of Hilton phoning me up and saying "We've put 1,000 points into your account. Happy Birthday!!", there are no free points.

Every dollar I spent on the HH Amex is a dollar I didn't spend on a 2% rebate card.
Every point I earn on a hotel stay is a hotel stay I didn't book via Priceline.
Every signup bonus I receive entails a hard pull I didn't use on a home-grown points card with a bonus that I can quickly turn into effective cash. (Thank You Points or whatever)

So how I got my points seems irrelevant to me. I make a conscious decision to buy the points based on how I value them. My account right now has points from all of the above sources.

(b) I don't expect the points to retain the same value forever - that ebbs and flows, up and down. (Yes, it can go up - especially when the US dollar weakens a bit.) We've come to expect annual category creep...usually upward at our favorite hotels, because our favorite hotels are typically the good ones where there is increasing demand for the rooms. I think most people generally expect category creep in economies where either inflation in general is higher or where the local currency is moving very rapidly upward against the dollar.

But what we don't expect is these two back-to-back (in 2 to 3 years) major structural changes to the program that vastly devalue the points in ways that seem unrelated to general macroeconomic forces. I think that's what has a lot of people highly irritated...and it doesn't matter if you get your points by staying 150 nights a year or doing a ton of business with Amex/Citi.

Add in the fact that Hilton didn't really throw anyone a positive bone when they put in these changes. At least when Marriott did their major structural change a couple years ago, we got a real benefit: specifically, award availability genuinely improved throughout the system. (They also increased Plat earnings to soften the devaluation blow to about 9% overall.) I don't feel like I'm getting any love from HH in this round of changes...

pinniped

Well, I drained my account down to under 2,000 points....but now it's a month later, and I'm back up at 110k. I've decided to keep playing HH as a secondary program...I'll be in some of the secondary European markets in the next 1-2 years where there are very good Hiltons that didn't seem to get rocked too hard with this round of devaluation.

flyer4512

LOL.................too much time on YOUR hands I guess.

monsrt

Personally I thought "your right" was the opposite of "your left"

lhuynh

Ugh! I am finally seeing this thread and totally missed the deadlines until I got my letter today for my Hilton AMEX.

I'm going on a trip to Europe in August and September this year. Figure I should use up points in London and possibly Amsterdam. Folks have any recommendation of the remaining g Cat 7 in London I should consider. I've been to London a few times. Location matters but not crucial. What of the Doubletrees or Hilton Metropole or Hyde Park are best to use an AXON award?

Any thoughts on the DT in Amsterdam?

InkUnderNails

Yes, I booked a domestic resort vacation and dropped the account a bit.

I also know that I am unusual. I kept a generous balance for two very specific reasons. First, I visit a specialist 300 miles away for twice a year treatments over three days. I use points, or points+cash for the trip. Second, I am self employed and there are trips I make of a promotional or marketing nature (non-billable time) in which I use points or points+cash. I do the same for airline miles. I can make a cross country marketing trip for less than $300 out of pocket and most of that is rental car and airport parking. When the rate of success on these trips is generally one new job every three trips, it really makes a difference.

I see my points balance as prepaid hotel for stays that would otherwise be paid out of pocket. It is interesting that some of the lower level properties I use for these two reasons have dropped in redemption value.

As for a 2% cash back card, my typical Amex spend is $2K-$3K per month. That's just $60. Most of my points come from actually staying at the property.

kmandrew

I disagree a bit, I do consider points as free. Every point I have ever earned has been paid by my employer; I if had to guess the mayority of members of this forum are in the same boat. You obviously pay for your own travel, I have never even considered using Priceline. Prior to the mid 80's all I received for hotel/flight travel was my paycheck, now I get 2 weeks basically anywhere in the world I wish to travel completely free plus plus all the little perks (upgrades/suites) we all get from time to time but seem to forget about.

bearkatt

deleted

JDiver

My take on this: Blackstone (not Hilton) has put Hilton in the feedlot to fatten it up for a sale? (And what ever let anyone think Blackstone cared about customers?)

pinniped

No, mine is a mix of leisure and business travel, and I consider the points and miles as a small part of my compensation for taking the business trip.

And I generally hate using Priceline except as a last, last resort but I'm also conscious that it is there and I still try to be aware of what I'm really paying for my points, perks, and status.

Happy

I bet you this would be the mindset for virtually all folks who are a small business owner or self-employed, or paying everything out from own pocket.

And this should be the right mind set in handling most things, financial matters in particular.

Everything has a cost - whether it is tangible or intangible, you pay something to get something back, even what you pay is the personal time away from home and family and you dont care because you get back the perks - the perks are not "free", they are just paid with different currency than cash.

Uniter

I agree... excellent post and perspective on points.

mrstraveler

I've been researching this for a couple of days here and on the blogs...still haven't found a definitive answer. Where do hilton all inclusive resorts fall under the AXON category?

lkar

Well, I was off in my predictions. I thought Hilton might set AXON at or just below the level of 4x the lowest seasonal rate, but to set them, in some cases, near the midpoint is just crazy.

I'm really surprised that Amex has essentially decided to cede virtually entirely to citi on the Hilton partnership. There is simply no reason to keep the for-fee Amex card, and virtually no reason to spend a penny on it.

I would love to know how much cash Hilton was recognizing these last few years by selling points to Amex. I'm sure it was a very very significant amount. Will it all be replaced with citi infusing cash for points? I guess people will put their 10k on that card to get the free night, but spending a penny above that is silly now for points accumulation.

Here's my prediction. The dust is going to settle here. I don't know how long the citi/Amex v. Hilton contracts last or what kind of requirements are involved. But at some point, Hilton is going to find itself selling WAY fewer points to its partners, or having to drastically cut the price. It may take a few quarters or even a year or more, but eventually we're going to see some adjustment to deal with a devaluation this big. Stay activity can be calibrated with promos or elite benefits, and I don't think this will be the big driver here. But all the loyalty companies are getting addicted to the cash from their big partnerships with the banks that front them the cash for points, and I doubt Hilton is going to be able to do without. We'll see something. Who knows what it will be -- bonus points for certain categories of spending, other spending based credit card benefits, or maybe even increasing the relative value between gold and diamond to get people to consider 40k in spend on the citi card, but it will be something.