Back to Finnair plus or stick with BA EC?
#241
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My thoughts exactly. Throw in Asia-bound trips, where BA/LHR makes even less sense...
#242
Join Date: Apr 2010
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There's no incentive for me to go AY+ - zilch, nada, none.
Miles/Points expire and getting OW Emerald isn't easy (and no, doing ARN/BMA or turboprop runs doesn't count as that), not to mention the perks are bland and how the Platinum priviledges have so far been executed. Furthermore I don't fancy booking anything advanced with AY, taken how phone reservations are with a fee, plus how AMEX always get a surcharge levied upon. Out of my 6 recent AY flights (actual AY or outsourced Norra), all have been subpar or bland. It's just a tool for me to position myself for other airlines, that's about it.
As all my current travel is leisure, I can dictate how I wish to get to my destination (inc. flying in C) and renew my status. And nope, AY only comes into the picture as a necessary nuisance, not something I look forward to. Too bad the market is too small for local competitors. AY can cut back on almost anything.
Just stating that not every Finn is a Finnair hugger.
Miles/Points expire and getting OW Emerald isn't easy (and no, doing ARN/BMA or turboprop runs doesn't count as that), not to mention the perks are bland and how the Platinum priviledges have so far been executed. Furthermore I don't fancy booking anything advanced with AY, taken how phone reservations are with a fee, plus how AMEX always get a surcharge levied upon. Out of my 6 recent AY flights (actual AY or outsourced Norra), all have been subpar or bland. It's just a tool for me to position myself for other airlines, that's about it.
As all my current travel is leisure, I can dictate how I wish to get to my destination (inc. flying in C) and renew my status. And nope, AY only comes into the picture as a necessary nuisance, not something I look forward to. Too bad the market is too small for local competitors. AY can cut back on almost anything.
Just stating that not every Finn is a Finnair hugger.
#243
Join Date: Aug 2010
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There's no incentive for me to go AY+ - zilch, nada, none.
Miles/Points expire and getting OW Emerald isn't easy (and no, doing ARN/BMA or turboprop runs doesn't count as that), not to mention the perks are bland and how the Platinum priviledges have so far been executed. Furthermore I don't fancy booking anything advanced with AY, taken how phone reservations are with a fee, plus how AMEX always get a surcharge levied upon. Out of my 6 recent AY flights (actual AY or outsourced Norra), all have been subpar or bland. It's just a tool for me to position myself for other airlines, that's about it.
As all my current travel is leisure, I can dictate how I wish to get to my destination (inc. flying in C) and renew my status. And nope, AY only comes into the picture as a necessary nuisance, not something I look forward to. Too bad the market is too small for local competitors. AY can cut back on almost anything.
Just stating that not every Finn is a Finnair hugger.
Miles/Points expire and getting OW Emerald isn't easy (and no, doing ARN/BMA or turboprop runs doesn't count as that), not to mention the perks are bland and how the Platinum priviledges have so far been executed. Furthermore I don't fancy booking anything advanced with AY, taken how phone reservations are with a fee, plus how AMEX always get a surcharge levied upon. Out of my 6 recent AY flights (actual AY or outsourced Norra), all have been subpar or bland. It's just a tool for me to position myself for other airlines, that's about it.
As all my current travel is leisure, I can dictate how I wish to get to my destination (inc. flying in C) and renew my status. And nope, AY only comes into the picture as a necessary nuisance, not something I look forward to. Too bad the market is too small for local competitors. AY can cut back on almost anything.
Just stating that not every Finn is a Finnair hugger.
Not everyone is a AY fan but AY is not by far the worst
AY+ has some benefits like the gold partner card that are great... But something for everyone, ie it wont work for everyone... Baec might work for others while AY+ for some... i was a AA man for a long time but NOW I have to reevaluate
#244
Join Date: May 2013
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I might be biased since I've only had top tier status with AY, but still I beg to disagree on many points.
Getting Platinum is not really that difficult and points do not expire while your Platinum (i.e. forever).
While there are some flights with really subpar service, I find the Finnair service often very unique and suitable for my Finnish/Nordic mindset and expectations.
Getting Platinum is not really that difficult and points do not expire while your Platinum (i.e. forever).
While there are some flights with really subpar service, I find the Finnair service often very unique and suitable for my Finnish/Nordic mindset and expectations.
#245
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I wrote my post on purpose a bit nosy, just to make a different point as this is a Finnair subforum.
Okay, indeed, points don't expire as Platinum, but then again I really need to keep my status up-to-date for that. I find it more relaxed with BAEC.
Anyway, I really disagree with the claim that AY service is unique.
Yes, it's unique to treat your top tier guests with murmuring and incoherency. I've read the thread about Platinum recognition and, for instance, if someone would say me "sää haluat varmaan lehden", I'd honestly reply "sää taidat olla joku räkänokka kun et osaa olla kohtelias" (i.e. "you're somekinda chav/Essex girl, taken you can't be polite"). AY is okay, but not anything stellar on an European level (no, not comparing to CX etc.).
I personally like BA on longhaul and shorthaul as there's consistancy and they're overall mainly nice crew. Not to mention all the actually fun, yet diligent crew on any airline I've experienced have always been with BA.
Furthermore BA has actually uniforms I like. AY's current female uniforms are tacky, sorry. It's not in any sense stylish, but rather feels like some student from Aalto ARTS had a brilliant idea on a Sunday morning, with a nice hangover and having watched too much Star Trek.
As for the actual flying, my flights with AY have been par with others. Nothing special in terms on take offs and landings. IMHO the biggest reason for why AY is such a cherished thing for us Finns, is the language and ownership. Other than that, I have never experienced anything that would really give me a reason to say "fly AY, if you want good service." However I could say "fly AY, if you want to try something else in OW." It works, but so does SK. And actually even Norwegian, hence I myself would never fly with them anymore.
Okay, indeed, points don't expire as Platinum, but then again I really need to keep my status up-to-date for that. I find it more relaxed with BAEC.
Anyway, I really disagree with the claim that AY service is unique.
Yes, it's unique to treat your top tier guests with murmuring and incoherency. I've read the thread about Platinum recognition and, for instance, if someone would say me "sää haluat varmaan lehden", I'd honestly reply "sää taidat olla joku räkänokka kun et osaa olla kohtelias" (i.e. "you're somekinda chav/Essex girl, taken you can't be polite"). AY is okay, but not anything stellar on an European level (no, not comparing to CX etc.).
I personally like BA on longhaul and shorthaul as there's consistancy and they're overall mainly nice crew. Not to mention all the actually fun, yet diligent crew on any airline I've experienced have always been with BA.
Furthermore BA has actually uniforms I like. AY's current female uniforms are tacky, sorry. It's not in any sense stylish, but rather feels like some student from Aalto ARTS had a brilliant idea on a Sunday morning, with a nice hangover and having watched too much Star Trek.
As for the actual flying, my flights with AY have been par with others. Nothing special in terms on take offs and landings. IMHO the biggest reason for why AY is such a cherished thing for us Finns, is the language and ownership. Other than that, I have never experienced anything that would really give me a reason to say "fly AY, if you want good service." However I could say "fly AY, if you want to try something else in OW." It works, but so does SK. And actually even Norwegian, hence I myself would never fly with them anymore.
#246
Join Date: May 2013
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I personally like BA on longhaul and shorthaul as there's consistancy and they're overall mainly nice crew. Not to mention all the actually fun, yet diligent crew on any airline I've experienced have always been with BA.
Furthermore BA has actually uniforms I like. AY's current female uniforms are tacky, sorry. It's not in any sense stylish, but rather feels like some student from Aalto ARTS had a brilliant idea on a Sunday morning, with a nice hangover and having watched too much Star Trek.
As for the actual flying, my flights with AY have been par with others. Nothing special in terms on take offs and landings. IMHO the biggest reason for why AY is such a cherished thing for us Finns, is the language and ownership.
Furthermore BA has actually uniforms I like. AY's current female uniforms are tacky, sorry. It's not in any sense stylish, but rather feels like some student from Aalto ARTS had a brilliant idea on a Sunday morning, with a nice hangover and having watched too much Star Trek.
As for the actual flying, my flights with AY have been par with others. Nothing special in terms on take offs and landings. IMHO the biggest reason for why AY is such a cherished thing for us Finns, is the language and ownership.
BA has IMHO the worst hard product there is, both short-haul and long-haul, which even their service can't make up. Moreover, I think the CW concept totally destroys the thought of personal service in business class, there are simply too many passengers to feel even a little special.
Again, I find the AY uniforms really sharp-looking, whereas BA's uniforms bring the 1990's to my mind. They are very old-fashioned and stuffy while Finnair actually looks fresh and have their own style to it. BA's uniform is very ordinary, too ordinary.
I really do not favor or cherish Finnair because it is state-owned. If I cared about state ownership, I'd probably just avoid using Finnair, as I don't find state-owned airlines very fair to free markets. I favor Finnair because I think they have a certain style of their own to what they do and I like it. They are an affordable choice and provide me with a route network that suits my needs. That's really all there is to it.
Then again we're not all carved from the same tree and I can see where you're coming from. I think we just have a bit different expectations and likings when it comes to airline customer service.
#247
Join Date: May 2016
Location: BLL
Programs: AY+ Platinum, SK Gold, HHonors Silver
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However, Finnair is not perfect, and many may not give a flying fruit about the above branding and customer experience. But I like the current identity of a "boutique airline" or whatever you want to call it - it stands out among faceless large airlines. And I admire what they've attempt to do from a branding perspective. I'm a happy customer most of the time, and they do service my needs very well. Now if the flights to and from LHR were cheaper than BA I would choose AY any time.
#248
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Unio Europaea
Programs: BA GGL, AS, Hertz Cirque Présidentielle
Posts: 1,445
Adding to the whole design discussion: anything Marimekko... ewwww.
It can't be so hard to do something like: "Saisiko Teille olla juotavaa, sillä matkustatte paljon lennoillamme?" or "Haluamme tarjota Teille päivän lehden paljon lentävänä asiakkaana, olisiko esimerkiksi Ilta-Sanomat tervetullut?" ("Would You like to drink something, as you're frequently on our flights?", "We would like to offer You a daily newspaper as our frequent flying customer, would you for instance like Ilta-Sanomat?")
Indeed, but that's why we debate online. It's called "we agree to disagree."
#249
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Well, I fly/flew both AY and BA extensively and I tend to lean towards AY. The main issues
- the dorm of CW (8 across - really?)
- "afternoon tea" on CE
- gutting of BAEC and the new CCR threshold
(BA is better in that they have First, so you can use your vouchers/Avios to get there)
Shorthaul in Y - who cares whether AY or BA?
Of course as this topic is about the FFPs and not about the airlines as such, I'd say for AY fliers AY+ is generally better and BA flyers BAEC is generally better.
- the dorm of CW (8 across - really?)
- "afternoon tea" on CE
- gutting of BAEC and the new CCR threshold
(BA is better in that they have First, so you can use your vouchers/Avios to get there)
Shorthaul in Y - who cares whether AY or BA?
Of course as this topic is about the FFPs and not about the airlines as such, I'd say for AY fliers AY+ is generally better and BA flyers BAEC is generally better.
#250
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
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Flying Yakuza.. erh, sorry Yazata has a point. AY is pretty bland, inconsistent and not very good when it comes to interacting with repeat customers. There is a lot they need to learn if they want to survive. Recognizing tier customers is only one those things.
But when the comparison is to BA and BAEC, then it becomes silly...
Everytime this thread pops up in my inbox, I re-make the comparison and everytime AY+ comes out on top, when compared to BAEC for my type of flying. Not by much but enough to not even consider starting to endure flying BA.
I am not known for praising the Finnair cabin and comfort, and I am currently boycotting all Finnair A350 due to the new J cabin, but I'll take OH-LWx with duct tape and all anyday over a BA dormitory cabin with 8 abreast.
I do think the cabin on BA longhauls has a nicer look than AY's, as does SK's.
But I also have found that the looks of the cabin is only "important" on the very few first flights. Once acclimatised, the seat (space and comfort) is most important to me. Food&Drinks (quality/taste, presentation and interactions during service) is second and the rest a distant third. BA does well on the food&drinks when it comes to quality and taste but that doesn't really compensate if the customer needs to carry their plates to the galley themselves...
Like many, I've had several incidents with AY crew either uncomitted to the work or lacking language and/or basic interaction skills. But I have never been insulted or treated like I'm a nuisance, which I've been on BA.
As for the ownership of AY, well yes, I did hold 200 shares at one point in my life. But if you are referring to the 53% held by the Finnish state, then sorry, doesn't concern me. The hint that Finns in general will chose AY for national reasons may be true but I doubt it is prevalent on this board!
But when the comparison is to BA and BAEC, then it becomes silly...
Everytime this thread pops up in my inbox, I re-make the comparison and everytime AY+ comes out on top, when compared to BAEC for my type of flying. Not by much but enough to not even consider starting to endure flying BA.
I am not known for praising the Finnair cabin and comfort, and I am currently boycotting all Finnair A350 due to the new J cabin, but I'll take OH-LWx with duct tape and all anyday over a BA dormitory cabin with 8 abreast.
I do think the cabin on BA longhauls has a nicer look than AY's, as does SK's.
But I also have found that the looks of the cabin is only "important" on the very few first flights. Once acclimatised, the seat (space and comfort) is most important to me. Food&Drinks (quality/taste, presentation and interactions during service) is second and the rest a distant third. BA does well on the food&drinks when it comes to quality and taste but that doesn't really compensate if the customer needs to carry their plates to the galley themselves...
Like many, I've had several incidents with AY crew either uncomitted to the work or lacking language and/or basic interaction skills. But I have never been insulted or treated like I'm a nuisance, which I've been on BA.
As for the ownership of AY, well yes, I did hold 200 shares at one point in my life. But if you are referring to the 53% held by the Finnish state, then sorry, doesn't concern me. The hint that Finns in general will chose AY for national reasons may be true but I doubt it is prevalent on this board!
#251
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Unio Europaea
Programs: BA GGL, AS, Hertz Cirque Présidentielle
Posts: 1,445
Actually I do. Not the actual cabin, but what the economy booking classes entitle to. The BA handluggage policy is much more relaxed (I know, thanks to HBO fares), which means my HBO travel is mainly under threat from any possible AY intervention, if someone would want to get my backpack weighted. I've so far never had that happen, but in theory AY could become cranky at some of my trips.
Other than that, I do however choose BA over AY in terms of what is available as free catering. On AY I can only choose between still water and blueberry juice (which isn't even Finnish). Very minor issue, but it annoys me.
Sorry, I disagree.
My homebase (TMP) isn't a BA destination and I fly all my OW flights due to my own discretion of doing leisure trips and just overall being a nutter. I'm a frequent flyer junkie, so I might be able to keep AY+ Platinum for OWE from one year to another, if I'd choose to do so. Then again it's highly unlikely. Thus mileage redemption does indeed become an issue as I can't thank my employer for sponsoring my FFP mileage hoarding.
In my scenario BAEC is a much safer option, as I can't for sure predict how much I fly with OW each qualifying year. (Except now that I wish to maintain status, so, yes, I do get it done one way or another.) Thus it's smarter to collect Avios over time, without having to lose them. This applies also to most other leisure oriented frequent flyers. Previously I would've mentioned AAdvantage as a viable option, but not anymore.
I agree that AY+ probably works for the typical FT'er with AY+ Platinum, because you qualify easily due to plenty of business trips. That's something I don't try to deny. Furthermore you get new miles all the time, so losing a few over time isn't necessarily an issue you bother with. However I don't see so many AY specific perks with AY+ Platinum that would make me choose it over BAEC, even if I would be doing business trips. Now, if they would for instance waive phone reservation and credit card surcharges, then I could consider it as a true perk to be AY+ Platinum.
As a final concession towards the AY+ FT'ers: I do give kudos to AY for the upgrade vouchers you get. But other than that, I think AY should do more to improve the silver lining on how you experience the most bespoke level of loyalty. I can snatch free newspapers with BA, at the airport, as a Y passenger, without status, in many circumstances, so the free newspaper really isn't OWE grade stuff.
Other than that, I do however choose BA over AY in terms of what is available as free catering. On AY I can only choose between still water and blueberry juice (which isn't even Finnish). Very minor issue, but it annoys me.
My homebase (TMP) isn't a BA destination and I fly all my OW flights due to my own discretion of doing leisure trips and just overall being a nutter. I'm a frequent flyer junkie, so I might be able to keep AY+ Platinum for OWE from one year to another, if I'd choose to do so. Then again it's highly unlikely. Thus mileage redemption does indeed become an issue as I can't thank my employer for sponsoring my FFP mileage hoarding.
In my scenario BAEC is a much safer option, as I can't for sure predict how much I fly with OW each qualifying year. (Except now that I wish to maintain status, so, yes, I do get it done one way or another.) Thus it's smarter to collect Avios over time, without having to lose them. This applies also to most other leisure oriented frequent flyers. Previously I would've mentioned AAdvantage as a viable option, but not anymore.
I agree that AY+ probably works for the typical FT'er with AY+ Platinum, because you qualify easily due to plenty of business trips. That's something I don't try to deny. Furthermore you get new miles all the time, so losing a few over time isn't necessarily an issue you bother with. However I don't see so many AY specific perks with AY+ Platinum that would make me choose it over BAEC, even if I would be doing business trips. Now, if they would for instance waive phone reservation and credit card surcharges, then I could consider it as a true perk to be AY+ Platinum.
As a final concession towards the AY+ FT'ers: I do give kudos to AY for the upgrade vouchers you get. But other than that, I think AY should do more to improve the silver lining on how you experience the most bespoke level of loyalty. I can snatch free newspapers with BA, at the airport, as a Y passenger, without status, in many circumstances, so the free newspaper really isn't OWE grade stuff.
#252
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Unio Europaea
Programs: BA GGL, AS, Hertz Cirque Présidentielle
Posts: 1,445
Overall what really bothers me with Finnair is the lack of attention to detail, which also explains why AY+ Platinums don't get what one would expect. There's many ways to come to my conclusion, but for instance just look at a typical AY menu card and you get the drift. It's so amateurish in terms of layout and details. Ack. Now compare it to e.g. IB and you really feel like it's the business class of Norwegian.
As for AY, I've had some bad experiences, especially on one of their charter flights and failing to deplane a drunk sod. Had to sit next to that being, who had boozed all week and was a total wreck, some 4 hrs... Thanks to this, I never ever any longer do any charter flights. Other than that, there has at several occasions been some way too soft air hostesses that haven't had enough balls to commandeer. Last time was on my recent FCO-HEL flight and Italians crowding the emergency exit area for chatter, while the FA should've disarmed the slide. I voiced myself in clear English as I was tired of the Italians.
Indeed.
#253
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
Programs: AF Platinum/AY LUMO/SK EBG/baEC S/HYATT Globalist/MR LTP/A3 *G/HH Dia/IHG plat
Posts: 7,965
I am NOT a fan of AY but I am leaning towards AY+ either as my main or secondary program in OW after the enhancements in ba and AA programs of late.
I dont really like the Finnair service on LH J as I have had many subpar experiences. In Y however I have had better experiences.
Go figure
ba is just BAD these day in MY opinion. I understand for many it is different.
I dislike CW not all aisle access. They are gutting thwir service standard in CW/F abd WT/WTP. Less for more and not in the good direction. I was going to stay with baEC and do GGL but luckily they change the criteria so no need for that
AAs new program just wont work for me so I ditched it after getting the new evips I still like the AA J product. Perhaps the American in me
The baec does not really reward much in my opinion, sure status is easy to get so thats a plus then again baec Gold isnt really special again just my opinion.
But thank goodness there are many programs to suit many people. I think those who fly mainly AY Paid J on AY code are winners in AY plus. Other then that it may be excruciating
Hopefully service will improve. Not alot of finnish staff onboard anymore it seems or I am just on those flights without abd lots of outsourced planes so...
In the next 6month I will test out QR EY EK etc so maybe more radical moved but I doubt it
I never thought I would consider even AY plus but here I am considering I have a feeling they will mirror alot of positives of other programs from Plat while bleedibg golds/silvers dry
ZERO inside knowledge just a hunch!
Perhaps a SK like diamond comp upgrade
I dont really like the Finnair service on LH J as I have had many subpar experiences. In Y however I have had better experiences.
Go figure
ba is just BAD these day in MY opinion. I understand for many it is different.
I dislike CW not all aisle access. They are gutting thwir service standard in CW/F abd WT/WTP. Less for more and not in the good direction. I was going to stay with baEC and do GGL but luckily they change the criteria so no need for that
AAs new program just wont work for me so I ditched it after getting the new evips I still like the AA J product. Perhaps the American in me
The baec does not really reward much in my opinion, sure status is easy to get so thats a plus then again baec Gold isnt really special again just my opinion.
But thank goodness there are many programs to suit many people. I think those who fly mainly AY Paid J on AY code are winners in AY plus. Other then that it may be excruciating
Hopefully service will improve. Not alot of finnish staff onboard anymore it seems or I am just on those flights without abd lots of outsourced planes so...
In the next 6month I will test out QR EY EK etc so maybe more radical moved but I doubt it
I never thought I would consider even AY plus but here I am considering I have a feeling they will mirror alot of positives of other programs from Plat while bleedibg golds/silvers dry
ZERO inside knowledge just a hunch!
Perhaps a SK like diamond comp upgrade
#254
Join Date: May 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat (OWE), SK EBG (*A Gold), KQ Plat (STE+), Accor Plat
Posts: 3,157
Actually I do. Not the actual cabin, but what the economy booking classes entitle to. The BA handluggage policy is much more relaxed (I know, thanks to HBO fares), which means my HBO travel is mainly under threat from any possible AY intervention, if someone would want to get my backpack weighted. I've so far never had that happen, but in theory AY could become cranky at some of my trips.
In my scenario BAEC is a much safer option, as I can't for sure predict how much I fly with OW each qualifying year. (Except now that I wish to maintain status, so, yes, I do get it done one way or another.) Thus it's smarter to collect Avios over time, without having to lose them.
Overall, I've always found AY+ to suit my needs the best. Most of my points I spend on either status or business upgrades. If I was in BAEC/AADV I'd miss out on the business upgrades (flying AY). I just personally really dislike the BA service, lounges and all that. Moreover we're seeing some bad enhancements like the removal of amouse bouche in longhaul F, the "new" Club World which is going to be as bad as the old one with eight abreast and so on. I really have no desire of going away from AY.
#255
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Posts: 14,107
In my scenario BAEC is a much safer option, as I can't for sure predict how much I fly with OW each qualifying year. (Except now that I wish to maintain status, so, yes, I do get it done one way or another.) Thus it's smarter to collect Avios over time, without having to lose them. This applies also to most other leisure oriented frequent flyers. Previously I would've mentioned AAdvantage as a viable option, but not anymore.
If you're moving in the AY Gold/Plat range, it means that you're collecting the points at least at 100k p.a rate, so you always have a stash to use - upgrading & award flights. You're a frequent leasure traveller, so you'd welcome this. The expiry may be an issue for very infrequent travellers, where 20k or 30k seem like science fiction
But I do keep a stash of Avios (and AA miles) because there are situations where they are just much better.
And as for my remark about earning/burning - these days el cheapo flights get you minimum Avios on non-BA/IB flights and little better AY+ points on non-AY flights. Same in the front of the bus - much better earnings on own metal in both FFPs.
As I fly a lot eastbound, I appreciate AY's Asian network - most everywhere it's just one flight, no connections (KUL, I need you!) This drives me naturally to AY+ When I had (used to have) a lot of Middle-East travel, BA was one of the options with LH, OS and LX. Then it was a good choice for me and I made normally 2500-2700TPs. Was just about to hit 3000TPs when the CCR rules changed. That was the final straw.