Right. While it's become almost second nature to some of us, those starting out with the fine dining experience (we all likely had gone through a similar learning curve), will likely need to rely on the waitstaff for some help. Absent of any prior experience, a first time experience, say, in a steak restaurant or fine French cuisine can be a pretty intimidating experience.

Not suggesting there's a norm here, but I've always defaulted to 20% (with $5 min) tip before tax, and likely 25% or a C-Note for restaurants I frequent often and with some regularity. What I take some umbrage with is in SF, where now they expect you to not only pay for the healthcare tax, but to tip 20% on top of tax, whatever fees and the cost of the wine. When I realized the minimum wage in this area is when I cut their tip down to 10% post tax, but remain tipping my standard 20% in other areas, unless they start with fees and/or raise the minimum wage.

I'd suggest it's the server's job, and what you tip for, at any restaurant. There's a burger place we had heard about in Michigan that we stopped in last summer. Lots of burgers on the menu, different sizes, sides, etc. When we said we need a couple minutes longer to look at the menu, the server said (paraphrased, because I really can't remember the specifics) "Sure, and these are a couple of our most popular burgers. Or if you like x, you might try this burger. And people love the seasoned fries." She then left us for a few more minutes to give us time to decide.

When we ate at Akelarre in Spain, I very much expected (and got) the server to explain every dish and any unique ingredients as it was served. Different expectations, but in both cases the server was a guide, not just merely a food carrier.

There is no such tax. Employers are required to provide health insurance. Rather than honestly raising prices to cover their cost, they pretend you'll pay a lesser amount and then add a mandatory surcharge.

I live in a small town and generally go to a sit down restaurant once or twice a week.

I start with a figure of 12 percent. Every time a server refills my pop or checks with the kitchen about cross contamination for a serious allergy or provides a reasonable item of service (for example asks if I need more sauce or wasabi), I add one percent to that figure.

So lets say a server brings me two refills on the pop and another wasabi, they get 15%.

It's usually a smaller place, servers often sit down and have a little chat. The manager often comes by and inquires about the quality of the meal. I don't mind that. There are lots of times a cute waitress will come by and strike up a conversation, not for a bigger tip, but because I'm a regular and generally am polite and friendly.

What I remember is that about 15 years ago, a businessman who owned two very successful restaurants opened an 'ultralounge'. You were expected to tip heavily. That was because there was a dance floor and because they offered bottle service and table service. I could order a bottle of wine and at the end if the night expected a very massive tip.

The problem with the bar was (for example Lady Gaga performed there) that people got tired if the atmosphere real quick. So writers who were pulling in 25 to 50% tips on mixed drinks and much more on wine, were actually making 2.35 plus tips in an hour. So as the bar approached a slow failure, the staff were making only a few dollars, people were making ten dollars for four hour shifts.

The bar tried to bring in big name shows, drink specials, even free dance lessons. But the staff suffered and people no longer wanted to work for a few dollars an hour.

Does a service charge mean employees make a living wage, not usually. I delivered pizza for a while and made far less than minimum wage, despite a note on the bill that you should tip for good service. So while some nights I'd make 60 dollars a shift, I was making less than the cost of gas. They should have put a note on the bill that the owner expected you to work all day long, and that we were only paid to do deliveries- despite working for free in the restaurant all day.

Is it right to tip? It depends o the legal parameters. With pizza, I was a 'contractor', so the boss could skirt labour laws. But if the employee receives a proper wage, I would only tip for really good service.

I have a family member who was a waitress in a cafe. One day there were some boys who came in, had several beer and tipped her 100 bucks. But they weren't tipping for good service, they tipped because one of them vomited all over the table I probably would have given her a big tip there too.

In my local culture tipping isn't often expected, people assume that waiters and delivery services make a decent wage and that the food bill reflects this.

So yeah, I tip waitresses or waiters. Do j tip 25%, no. When I delivered pizza, some people would say that they were paying for the pizza and that I should get more money as a wage.

I can see both sides.

C.

C: I am surprised you get any service if you go there twice a week. I would check that they are not spitting in your food.

No they don't. It's a per restaurant practice. Restaurants I worked at the tip didn't get shared even with the bus people. They were getting tipless min wage, while I was getting my $2.75/hr or w/ever that was.
As for tipping the mailman, etc, I am a network engineer. I make sure you Internet works at home daily. Why aren't you tipping me for Christmas? The main point is the culture of tipping is arbitrary and illogical. Your mailman and your garbage man already get a salary to bring you the mail and to take your garbage out. What are you tipping them for?

How is that relevant? Cooks get a pay that is meant not to depend on tips while servers get a pay that assumes tipping. And yet still you are missing the point. The steak is harder to make than pasta, yes, which is why it's $30 and not $10. I am already paying for the complexity of the dish when I pay for the dish. I fail to see how the tip is supposed to include the complexity of the dish.

The key words are "their job". They just need to do their job and get paid for it by the proprietor who should be promoting the "experience" you are referring to. This is to say that every server in the restaurant should be providing a similar and good experience to you which should be included in the cost of your food. How the fact that "it's the server's job" factors into "we therefor need to tip the server" is completely beyond me.

And then just to drive this home, if you tip or a service charge is separately included on your bill, it's not like you have a choice to not use the service or not pay it. It's a compulsory item on your final bill. You can't go get your own steak from the kitchen if you don't want the service. So explain to me again why is the "bringing of the steak" or "explaining which burgers are popular" a separate line item?
The second i can go into a restaurant and say "i will put my own order in and pick it up and take my plates out", I will see the point of tipping. Otherwise, since the service is compulsory, it should just be included in the price of the dish.

What�s wrong with an average 15% tip? Suggesting that they are getting their food spat in, is ridiculous.

Try just ordering takeout, then. Almost every restaurant has it. No need for a tip, or drop a dollar into the tip jar if you feel like it.

I don't disagree with your bottom line, but the rest of this post isn't based on reality, and I think you realize that. What you're suggesting is the restaurant industry should pay a fair wage, get rid of tips, and charge the right price to over all these costs. I'm all for that. But the reality, as you've posted previously, is that servers are currently legally paid less than minimum wage with the expectation that tips will make up the difference. In the US, one should assume if they eat at a full-service restaurant, the total payment will be about ~15% higher than the menu price.

Ultimately, whether we agree with it or not, it is a driver of service quality. IME, most servers are friendly and helpful...not because they like us or we're charming but because making minimum wage or more depends on it. Contrary to what some people seem to think, you always have the option of not tipping for unsatisfactory service (mandatory service charges excluded...different story there). The power is in the hands of the customer not the server. If you've eaten in enough European restaurants, you'll realize this is true.

Again, I'd rather the whole scheme just go away. Charge me $20 for my burger and I won't pay a tip. I'll know what I'm buying and the server will know how much he's getting paid. But trying to change that as a single customer every time you go to a restaurant isn't the right approach, based on the current pay structure. As much as this free-market capitalist hates to admit it, at this point we'd likely need a law banning server tips to affect change.

1. Quote:

   Originally Posted by davie355

   precomputed tips: 18%, 20%, 25%, with the last option being selected by default.
   I hate now that the pre-computed options have gotten to where the suggested % is completely outrageous. My other pet peeve I have seen a few places is at places with a touchscreen for tips will have some sort of wording next to each choice like "18% - okay , 20% - good, 25% excellent" for service. So now if you are select 18% that are trying to shame you into a larger amount.

That "driver of service" has created a category of overly solicitous, overly familiar, intrusive and often irritating servers. This class of sever thinks they are part of the family, ask what "we" are having, are constantly interrupting the meal to see "how everyone is doing," promoting specials, pushing desserts and then dropping the bill on you with "I'll just take that when you are ready. And should, heaven forbid, you not eat everything on your plate they will inquire if there was a problem with the food or if you want a doggie bag. I'll take European service every time.

I don't like over-friendly, over-familiar service either.

But this isn't my experience. While there are certainly servers like you describe, most I've encountered are not. Just like any profession, there are people who are better at their jobs than others. Now, there are certain restaurant chains that have actually promoted this type of familiar behavior -- it was really popular in the 90's among several chains. I suppose I don't eat at those restaurants very often though.

In any case, I think it's incorrect to generally tie the described behavior to the practice of tipping. It's more of an individual issue or that of a particular restaurant. To each his own, but I find that I get better service overall in the US than most European countries -- again, it's not in terms of the server being my best friend, it's about them helping guide me to having an enjoyable meal.

What's wrong with that? I think it is good service to inquire if everything is ok or do we want anything else (not 5 times but at least once) and to notice if food is uneaten. If there was a problem with the food they might want to report it to the kitchen or maybe even offer to comp something. I WANT the restaurant to care if I didn't like my food. I also don't get a problem with offering a doggie bag.

If there's a problem with the food I'll mention it. If I want a doggie bag I'll ask for it. I prefer not to be questioned by some tip-grubbing server why I left some food on my plate or what I want done with it.

That's fine, we all have our preferences, but you're likely not in the majority of customers with that one. Asking once is not harassment, most people would see that as polite. Asking more than once, too early in the meal (people are still eating), or with some type of inappropriate attitude is not good service though.

On the first point, I too would get annoyed if I were asked "is something wrong with your meal?". The better way to ask is if everything is ok, if I need anything else. This way, if everything isn't to my liking, I have an opportunity to ask for a change, an addition, or whatever I need without having to call a server over...which almost always annoys me.

I still agree with you that a server being over-friendly or familiar makes for a poor experience. But offering basic services isn't the same.