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25% default tip !

25% default tip !

Old Nov 12, 19, 12:52 pm
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Hank Moody View Post
My friction point is the 4% surcharge. Since when does the price of an item not include all components of business overhead? Restaurant owners should "man-up" and adjust retail prices to cover these costs rather than hiding them into the fine print at the bottom of the menu.
I think actually that started in the early 70's after the oil embargo led to rising energy costs. Businesses started adding energy surcharges to their invoices. Today, look at cruise fares, air fares, cell phone bills cable TV bills. Buy a set of tires or a car battery. I could go on. Many businesses have gone to a pricing model that includes multiple additions. I'm no less irritated than you. But it's really all over the place and has been for almost 50 years.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 1:25 pm
  #92  
 
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Originally Posted by Hank Moody View Post
My friction point is the 4% surcharge.
I believe the healthcare tax in SF is about 4% - 6%, but whatever it is, I just deduct from the tip. Also, when I realized how much per hour wait staff actually make in SF, I reduced my usual 20% tip to 15%. So, take off the healthcare tax, and my normal SF tip is now about 10% before tax & surcharges.

They don't like it, I suspect. But, it's between them, the restaurant and those who levy these taxes.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 1:33 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by HarryHolden68 View Post
Each to their own. When I go out
1. I do not want to be fawned over
2. I do not want to be the servers new best friend
3. I do not want to share my day with them
4. I do not expect to be patronised with "Perfect... Great choice.... or Great" when I order
I agree with exception of two Alain Ducasse restaurants:
Louis XV - in Monte Carlo
Plaza Athenee in Paris
His staff do not hover but sense when your wine or water need refilling! Best service I have ever had. Very friendly (esp the lunch crew but the plaza no longer does lunch)
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Old Nov 12, 19, 2:22 pm
  #94  
 
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Originally Posted by kipper View Post
You pay more in a tip at an establishment that charges more because, theoretically, you are paying for a better experience. The server should be more attentive, there are more courses, meals take longer, etc.

Yep - that's a common justification. Errr ... how do explain the difference in tip expected at the same establishment served by the same experienced waiter when one has bought a $500 bottle of wine instead of the $50 one.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 3:01 pm
  #95  
 
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Unhappy Service with a smile

I started coming to the states 30+ years ago. It seemed everywhere I went Service was the top priority, nothing to much trouble, always service with a smile. Happy to leave a tip, rule of thumb was tip twice as much as the Tax. Move the clock forward 15yrs and now I live in the States. It seems the greed culture has taken over, owners squeezing their staff to get the extra Dime out of them. Consequently the good Servers have moved on to other places and now the only ones left are here for a paycheck only, not much pride in their work, let's do as little as possible for a much as we can get and expect a tip for doing it.

One restaurant I went to in CA had a note on the bottom of the menu "4% added to help staff with a living wage". How nice of the restaurant owner to help his/her staff from living in a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere. I noted this on Yelp, the reply was to help with Health Insurance. Now a restaurant doesn't pay health insurance unless you work 30+ hours, as most servers are students you know that's not the case, so management benefit from this 4%.

25% as a tip is a bit steep, usually 10-20% would be a norm, with poor service coming in at a Zero.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 3:02 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
That seems like such a stupid move by the server in that of course the customer would immediately notice the card not being returned and call the credit card company to cancel the card, perhaps calling the police too or at least the manager/owner of the restaurant. If it were an AmEx card, there would be a good chance of AmEx sending investigators to the restaurant.
It was a stupid move. I called the manager.
Originally Posted by NC Flyer View Post
Yep - that's a common justification. Errr ... how do explain the difference in tip expected at the same establishment served by the same experienced waiter when one has bought a $500 bottle of wine instead of the $50 one.
That one, I don't, but just on meals, my explanation stands. I'm paying for the experience and the time.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 8:59 pm
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So, I tend to see 15-20% as a reasonable norm. I am rather bothered by the increasing "nudge" on tipping...I've noticed an upwards push on the "suggested tips" from 15/18/20 to 18/20/22 to 20/22/25. I actually ran into some taxis where the prompt was 20/25/30, which I found insulting.

Also, some terminals only seem to allow you to do a custom percentage (I usually try to "round off" with my tips) rather than a custom dollar amount. An issue with that in at least one taxi resulted in a zero tip not because I wanted to stiff the driver but because the system acted up.

As a rule, I will admit, I'm to the point that with car services I generally don't tip anymore. There are exceptions (e.g. "I need to make my train" and the driver makes it happen) but they are, well, exceptions.

I think I generally draw the line at 18/20/22...anything "pushing" beyond that is an insult to the customer. And, per above, any "service charge" which is levied lands as a tip in my book.
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Old Nov 13, 19, 1:41 am
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by HarryHolden68 View Post
Each to their own. When I go out
1. I do not want to be fawned over
2. I do not want to be the servers new best friend
3. I do not want to share my day with them
4. I do not expect to be patronised with "Perfect... Great choice.... or Great" when I order
Count me as one who also doesn't care for the intrusive and overly solicitous service often found in the US. I concluded years ago that the British pub is perhaps the best service model for food and beverage and no tipping is required. It does however flumox first time visitors who may sit for some time before realizing they have to go to the bar for drinks and bring them back to the table themselves.
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Old Nov 13, 19, 3:38 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by BJH100 View Post
Living the Bay Area during the apogee years, I was socialized by my friends to leave 20 per cent on top of
subsidizing their health care with another charge. I moved to Portugal several years ago after living in Zurich and wow. Now if I leave 5 Euro on a 40 Euro for two person dinner Ill hear wait staff whisper he isn’t British he has to be American.
Why should people enter into a salary sharing agreement with management? Mandate a living wage and then tip a bit for outstanding service. The US system will never end unless pressure is applied. Another factor in some Euro zone countries like Portugal wages are taxed on first euro earned, not like the US where income must approach 22-24 k before even a dollar is taxed. Maybe then you wouldn’t have to subsidize their healthcare.
While federal income tax may not end up due at low income levels in the US, don't be so sure that the tax for contributing to the US social security system doesn't begin from the employee's first employer-reported dollar of income. Employers shifting the cost of labor to the clients via tipping is a systematic problem that suits employers at the expense of the employees, of the customers and especially at the public at large.

Last edited by GUWonder; Nov 13, 19 at 3:47 am
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Old Nov 13, 19, 8:14 am
  #100  
 
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To me, it is very simple. It's your money, spend it how you seem fit. Tipping is a personal choice, do it if you want to, don't if you don't want to. It is my opinion that those people who feel it is necessary to do so are worried what other people think about them. I don't worry about what other people think about me, as I probably will only see them that one time. I don't go out to restaurants often, so I don't know any server personally, but I feel if someone does a good job serving my needs in the restaurant, I will tip them accordingly.
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Old Nov 13, 19, 9:00 am
  #101  
 
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Originally Posted by HarryHolden68 View Post
Each to their own. When I go out

1. I do not want to be fawned over
2. I do not want to be the servers new best friend
3. I do not want to share my day with them
4. I do not expect to be patronised with "Perfect... Great choice.... or Great" when I order

I do want them to interact minimally to do the basic task they are charged with. Having the server act like an over excited Labrador puppy wanting to be loved in order to extort wages from me is just excruciating. So uncool as I know the instant i walk out, I am nobody to them. Sucking up to my ego just to get a wage is nothing short of legalised prostitution.

I would tip far more to the server who reads my intentions than I would to one who forces their personality on me and my party.
I've lived in the US my whole 40-ish years and I agree with you. And please, for the love of God, don't let the server sit down casually next to me like they want to snuggle or something, while they take my order (thankfully that's rare)! It's a pleasure to dine out in many other countries where I don't have to deal with all the fake BS that I so often do here at home.

Originally Posted by Berniecfc View Post
I started coming to the states 30+ years ago. It seemed everywhere I went Service was the top priority, nothing to much trouble, always service with a smile. Happy to leave a tip, rule of thumb was tip twice as much as the Tax. Move the clock forward 15yrs and now I live in the States. It seems the greed culture has taken over, owners squeezing their staff to get the extra Dime out of them. Consequently the good Servers have moved on to other places and now the only ones left are here for a paycheck only, not much pride in their work, let's do as little as possible for a much as we can get and expect a tip for doing it.
US service standards have definitely declined in the past several decades in my opinion. Not just in food service but all around.


Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
While federal income tax may not end up due at low income levels in the US, don't be so sure that the tax for contributing to the US social security system doesn't begin from the employee's first employer-reported dollar of income. Employers shifting the cost of labor to the clients via tipping is a systematic problem that suits employers at the expense of the employees, of the customers and especially at the public at large.
Correct, Social Security taxes begin with the first dollar of wages up to the annual wage limit that year. Medicare taxes also begin with the first dollar of wages but there is no annual wage limit.
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Old Nov 13, 19, 2:08 pm
  #102  
 
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I thought it was a bribe to ensure that your food or drink won't be messed with if you return.
I dread more about which overly friendly, nosy, coddling waiter I will get than the suggested tip boxes creeping up amounts. Tipping is already uncomfortable and now you made it even more so with your over the top friendliness. I stopped tipping all together.
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Old Nov 14, 19, 4:41 am
  #103  
 
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Random thoughts on tipping

If a restaurant raised it's prices to encompass the increase in wages, a certain amount of the dining public would look at it as too expensive to eat there on a regular basis. What percentage that would be would determine if the restaurant survives.
The note of "20% across the board" would not be too abhorrent unless that also included bottles of wine etc... a $250 bottle becoming $300 or worse a $500 one now costs $600!
As far as differences in tipping culture, I would follow the when in Rome model. You can ..... about it but you better watch out for the dog poop while in Paris. How about the peeing planters in Paris? Vive La difference!
I guess some of this thought is derived from working at some fairly high end restaurants in DC while in school there and making a decent amount but also dealing with a fair amount of tourist diners who I honestly have to say, we approached with trepidation when it came to tipping.
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Old Nov 14, 19, 4:57 am
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Originally Posted by twon View Post
I guess some of this thought is derived from working at some fairly high end restaurants in DC while in school there and making a decent amount but also dealing with a fair amount of tourist diners who I honestly have to say, we approached with trepidation when it came to tipping.
LOL...can imagine you'd have some pretty comical, in hindsight, campfire stories to tell.
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Old Nov 14, 19, 6:56 am
  #105  
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What form did your approach to "tourist" diners take? And I assume you mean foreigners or is it people from elsewhere in the US? Or both?
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