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25% default tip !

25% default tip !

Old Oct 12, 19, 9:44 pm
  #16  
 
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Was this Manresa??

ive not seen the 25% option but I’ve seen 10% at La Boulangerie (formerly La Boulange, which SBUX bought ages ago), and I want to tell them to ditch that 10% option.

Usa is a tip society. California is a 4% or 5% health surcharge state. It’s not cheap but when we choose to dine out, it includes the societal obligation to tip, usually with giving that CC to a staffer.
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Old Oct 13, 19, 11:33 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Finkface View Post
This. It feels so weird to me to hand my credit card to a server or store clerk or similar and they disappear somewhere with it. Bizarre.
After having my card number stolen by a server who claimed my card must've fallen out of the folio and that's why it wasn't returned, I much prefer not giving my card to a server.
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Old Oct 14, 19, 6:21 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by davie355 View Post
I couldnít believe it. This is the same restaurant that called me during work hours to confirm a reservation Iíd made online.

The service was friendly, but slow and incompetent. One wrong item and one duplicate item was served to my table. The food was nicely presented but tasted like crap. And the prices were exorbitant, but I knew that going in.

Unusual for a restaurant in the US, payment was done by handheld electronic card reader brought to the table. I was asked to sign and select from one of the precomputed tips: 18%, 20%, 25%, with the last option being selected by default. Oh, of course on the receipt a 4% surcharge had already been added for compliance with health insurance laws of California, whatever that means.

25%!



Iím likely to find the restaurant ownerís email address and e-tear him a new one.
Here's a thought. Don't go back.
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Old Oct 15, 19, 8:18 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak View Post
Here's a thought. Don't go back.
But that makes sense and the OP receives no attention that way.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 1:14 pm
  #20  
 
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i guess i am a little late to this thread. when a restaurant charges a "surcharge" for their inability to price their food in relation to the wages they pay, i do not tip and encourage everyone else not to tip.

the thing to keep in mind is that legally, restaurants are required to ensure their wait staff receive minimum wage, but the wage for servers assumes a standard 15% tip. if servers' actual wage falls below that level (e.g., customers fail to tip), the restaurant is required to make up the difference.

now in california, servers get full minimum - there is no wage adjustment, meaning tips really are a bonus. but politically speaking, any restaurant charging a surcharge is essentially pushing an anti-worker agenda. in my opinion, the only appropriate response is to encourage that restaurant's workers that they are not working for a place that best serves their interests, and hopefully will encourage the staff to leave.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 1:19 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Finkface View Post
This. It feels so weird to me to hand my credit card to a server or store clerk or similar and they disappear somewhere with it. Bizarre.
Agree. I'm in hospitality and staff are told to do everything in front of the customer and not take card away.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 1:46 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by davie355 View Post
Oh, of course on the receipt a 4% surcharge had already been added for compliance with health insurance laws of California, whatever that means.
Originally Posted by lhrsfo View Post
They have already added 4%, so an additional 18% would make the tip 22% - way too much even if the service is good.
Take a closer read: The 4% isnít part of the tip, itís a state mandated fee. In your example, the tip would be 18%, not 22%.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 2:13 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by FLYMSY View Post
Take a closer read: The 4% isnít part of the tip, itís a state mandated fee.
The 4% is not part of the tip, correct.

It's a state mandated fee, not correct. The state mandates that the restaurant provide health insurance to its servers. Some restaurants impose a surcharge and blame it on this mandate. The state absolutely does not mandate charging this fee.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 2:24 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by crabbing View Post
now in california, servers get full minimum - there is no wage adjustment, meaning tips really are a bonus. but politically speaking, any restaurant charging a surcharge is essentially pushing an anti-worker agenda. in my opinion, the only appropriate response is to encourage that restaurant's workers that they are not working for a place that best serves their interests, and hopefully will encourage the staff to leave.
One could argue that the current minimum wage is still nowhere near enough to live on in some parts of California, meaning tipping is still pretty much mandatory. In any case, I definitely find the whole surcharging thing extremely petty and offputting.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 3:40 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
One could argue that the current minimum wage is still nowhere near enough to live on in some parts of California, meaning tipping is still pretty much mandatory. In any case, I definitely find the whole surcharging thing extremely petty and offputting.
That is an infinite argument. So many job sectors (even some so-called 'salaried' jobs where a person is working 40+ hours) make minimum wage...where do they fit in the ''tipping is mandatory' culture? I realize this (art of tipping) is a never-ending debate.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 3:54 pm
  #26  
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Tipping is always a sensitive subject on FT. 25% as the default tip is also pretty silly. Add in the 4% scamcharge, and yeah, itís too much.

If the food was horrid, send it back. Or were you trying to impress someone by taking them to a fancy place?

Last weekend, I went to my favorite conveyor-belt sushi place. While the food is good, and service is fine, the recommended tip was 18%. Table service only consists of water, clearing the sushi plates at the end of dining, and bringing the bill. Similar to a buffet, when it comes to tipping.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 5:28 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
Evidently at least one American is having trouble managing handheld payment devices. Emerging technology can be daunting for our American friends while Canada has had chip and pin cards for over a decade.
I split my time pretty equally between the US and Canada and since we have residences in both countries, I have credit cards issued by US banks and by Canadian banks. I must preface what I am about to write by saying that so far I have been lucky in that I have never been the victim of credit card theft in the US due to handing the wait staff my credit card to pay the bill (I'm sure if that ever happened to me, my feelings would change). But I cannot stand the Canadian chip and pin system at restaurants. Whenever the wait staff hands me the payment machine to calculate the tip and enter my pin on the total amount, they always look over my shoulder to see what amount I enter as my tip. In fact one time after I entered my tip, the server yelled out "OH C'MON!" (This was for a relatively standard 15% tip). I prefer the US system where they hand you the bill in the little book after running it through and then walk away to leave you alone to calculate the tip.

Sometimes when I am in a real salty mood, I will use my no foreign transaction fee US credit card to pay for a bill at a Canadian restaurant. It's a guilty pleasure of mine to watch the staff scramble to find a pen. But I try not do this too often.

I have also noticed that when I pay the Canadian restaurant tab with a U.S. credit card, the machine will give me the option of charging me in Canadian dollars or U.S. dollars. I always choose the former because the U.S. credit card issuer will provide a better currency exchange rate than the handheld payment machine.

One last thing, I have been told by a banker friend of mine that the Durbin Amendment is the reason why there is not widespread acceptance of the chip and pin cards in the U.S. as there is in other countries. So it does not appear to be an issue of Americans not being able to handle emerging payment technologies. Since the Durbin Amendment is so highly regarded in other areas, I don't see the US joining the rest of the world on this matter anytime soon.
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Old Oct 22, 19, 5:59 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by CodeAdam10 View Post
That is an infinite argument. So many job sectors (even some so-called 'salaried' jobs where a person is working 40+ hours) make minimum wage...where do they fit in the ''tipping is mandatory' culture? I realize this (art of tipping) is a never-ending debate.
It's already culturally accepted that non-service workers don't get tips, for better or worse.

Speaking of culture, it may be more accurate to say that it's a cultural expectation to tip service workers (with a lack of a "living wage"--whatever that entails--as rationalization). As people know, it's difficult and challenging to change cultural norms, especially if there's a group that benefits from the status quo.

Originally Posted by closecover View Post
I must preface what I am about to write by saying that so far I have been lucky in that I have never been the victim of credit card theft in the US due to handing the wait staff my credit card to pay the bill (I'm sure if that ever happened to me, my feelings would change).
I haven't had fraud happen due to the US system, but I have had my written-down tip improperly entered before (including once when the server didn't enter an entire digit of the tip amount at the end of the night and ended up with a $0.50 tip instead of something more like $5). Being able to enter the tip on a device would eliminate those issues.

BTW, there are devices that implement pay at the table that are more like what Americans are used to. They aren't all that common, though, at least not yet. A possibly cheaper solution would be to just leave the device on the table while you're serving other customers, but I get staff/owners being concerned about loss/damage by doing that. In addition, tip adjust is still allowed by card network rules in the US, so a fair number of pay at the table restaurants just have people write tip amounts on receipts anyway.

Originally Posted by closecover View Post
One last thing, I have been told by a banker friend of mine that the Durbin Amendment is the reason why there is not widespread acceptance of the chip and pin cards in the U.S. as there is in other countries. So it does not appear to be an issue of Americans not being able to handle emerging payment technologies. Since the Durbin Amendment is so highly regarded in other areas, I don't see the US joining the rest of the world on this matter anytime soon.
Why would an interchange cap (that only applies to large issuers, mind you) impact what kinds of debit cards they go with? A bunch of smaller banks and credit unions also went the chip and signature route despite not being subject to those caps. Not to mention that credit cards are almost all chip and signature despite interchange still being uncapped.

IMO, it was more that the existing lost/stolen fraud levels weren't high enough to justify it, especially since there was already awareness that the US was two generations behind in payment technology by the time we transitioned. Completely catching up (by adopting contactless cards/mobile wallets) would mean that PIN ideally wouldn't be asked for with smaller transactions anyway (and likely never will thanks to not supporting PIN for transactions in the first place and/or having the role of PIN be replaced by biometrics).
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Old Oct 22, 19, 7:26 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by closecover View Post
...Whenever the wait staff hands me the payment machine to calculate the tip and enter my pin on the total amount, they always look over my shoulder to see what amount I enter as my tip.
I've never experienced that. I find that they generally stand back to give you some privacy while you enter the tip and pin. However, they usually feel the need to make small talk while you are completing the transaction. Drives me crazy when they ask what my plans are for the day, as if it's any of their business. I have seen a few places that will leave the handheld machine while they check on other tables, but not many.

Back on topic, a default tip of 25% is ridiculous. One local restaurant uses a machine that equates each tip with a level of service, to make you feel guilty for choosing a lower tip option. It actually gives you choices like "15% = adequate service, 18% = good service, 25% = great service".
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Old Oct 22, 19, 8:55 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by closecover View Post
Whenever the wait staff hands me the payment machine to calculate the tip and enter my pin on the total amount, they always look over my shoulder to see what amount I enter as my tip. In fact one time after I entered my tip, the server yelled out "OH C'MON!" (This was for a relatively standard 15% tip). I prefer the US system where they hand you the bill in the little book after running it through and then walk away to leave you alone to calculate the tip.
I've never had a server attempt to look over my shoulder or comment on the tip amount. Did you make an issue of it at the restaurant?

One last thing, I have been told by a banker friend of mine that the Durbin Amendment is the reason why there is not widespread acceptance of the chip and pin cards in the U.S. as there is in other countries. So it does not appear to be an issue of Americans not being able to handle emerging payment technologies. Since the Durbin Amendment is so highly regarded in other areas, I don't see the US joining the rest of the world on this matter anytime soon.
Did he explain why limiting debit card merchant fees would cause banks not to introduce chip and pin? The Durbin Amendment doesn't apply to credit cards only debit.
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