gaobest

Was this Manresa??

ive not seen the 25% option but I’ve seen 10% at La Boulangerie (formerly La Boulange, which SBUX bought ages ago), and I want to tell them to ditch that 10% option.

Usa is a tip society. California is a 4% or 5% health surcharge state. It’s not cheap but when we choose to dine out, it includes the societal obligation to tip, usually with giving that CC to a staffer.

kipper

After having my card number stolen by a server who claimed my card must've fallen out of the folio and that's why it wasn't returned, I much prefer not giving my card to a server.

GadgetFreak

Here's a thought. Don't go back.

kipper

But that makes sense and the OP receives no attention that way.

crabbing

i guess i am a little late to this thread. when a restaurant charges a "surcharge" for their inability to price their food in relation to the wages they pay, i do not tip and encourage everyone else not to tip.

the thing to keep in mind is that legally, restaurants are required to ensure their wait staff receive minimum wage, but the wage for servers assumes a standard 15% tip. if servers' actual wage falls below that level (e.g., customers fail to tip), the restaurant is required to make up the difference.

now in california, servers get full minimum - there is no wage adjustment, meaning tips really are a bonus. but politically speaking, any restaurant charging a surcharge is essentially pushing an anti-worker agenda. in my opinion, the only appropriate response is to encourage that restaurant's workers that they are not working for a place that best serves their interests, and hopefully will encourage the staff to leave.

Annalisa12

Agree. I'm in hospitality and staff are told to do everything in front of the customer and not take card away.

FLYMSY

Take a closer read: The 4% isn’t part of the tip, it’s a state mandated fee. In your example, the tip would be 18%, not 22%.

davie355

The 4% is not part of the tip, correct.

It's a state mandated fee, not correct. The state mandates that the restaurant provide health insurance to its servers. Some restaurants impose a surcharge and blame it on this mandate. The state absolutely does not mandate charging this fee.

tmiw

One could argue that the current minimum wage is still nowhere near enough to live on in some parts of California, meaning tipping is still pretty much mandatory. In any case, I definitely find the whole surcharging thing extremely petty and offputting.

CodeAdam10

That is an infinite argument. So many job sectors (even some so-called 'salaried' jobs where a person is working 40+ hours) make minimum wage...where do they fit in the ''tipping is mandatory' culture? I realize this (art of tipping) is a never-ending debate.

Jaimito Cartero

Tipping is always a sensitive subject on FT. 25% as the default tip is also pretty silly. Add in the 4% scamcharge, and yeah, it’s too much.

If the food was horrid, send it back. Or were you trying to impress someone by taking them to a fancy place?

Last weekend, I went to my favorite conveyor-belt sushi place. While the food is good, and service is fine, the recommended tip was 18%. Table service only consists of water, clearing the sushi plates at the end of dining, and bringing the bill. Similar to a buffet, when it comes to tipping.

closecover

I split my time pretty equally between the US and Canada and since we have residences in both countries, I have credit cards issued by US banks and by Canadian banks. I must preface what I am about to write by saying that so far I have been lucky in that I have never been the victim of credit card theft in the US due to handing the wait staff my credit card to pay the bill (I'm sure if that ever happened to me, my feelings would change). But I cannot stand the Canadian chip and pin system at restaurants. Whenever the wait staff hands me the payment machine to calculate the tip and enter my pin on the total amount, they always look over my shoulder to see what amount I enter as my tip. In fact one time after I entered my tip, the server yelled out "OH C'MON!" (This was for a relatively standard 15% tip). I prefer the US system where they hand you the bill in the little book after running it through and then walk away to leave you alone to calculate the tip.

Sometimes when I am in a real salty mood, I will use my no foreign transaction fee US credit card to pay for a bill at a Canadian restaurant. It's a guilty pleasure of mine to watch the staff scramble to find a pen. But I try not do this too often.

I have also noticed that when I pay the Canadian restaurant tab with a U.S. credit card, the machine will give me the option of charging me in Canadian dollars or U.S. dollars. I always choose the former because the U.S. credit card issuer will provide a better currency exchange rate than the handheld payment machine.

One last thing, I have been told by a banker friend of mine that the Durbin Amendment is the reason why there is not widespread acceptance of the chip and pin cards in the U.S. as there is in other countries. So it does not appear to be an issue of Americans not being able to handle emerging payment technologies. Since the Durbin Amendment is so highly regarded in other areas, I don't see the US joining the rest of the world on this matter anytime soon.

tmiw

It's already culturally accepted that non-service workers don't get tips, for better or worse.

Speaking of culture, it may be more accurate to say that it's a cultural expectation to tip service workers (with a lack of a "living wage"--whatever that entails--as rationalization). As people know, it's difficult and challenging to change cultural norms, especially if there's a group that benefits from the status quo.

I haven't had fraud happen due to the US system, but I have had my written-down tip improperly entered before (including once when the server didn't enter an entire digit of the tip amount at the end of the night and ended up with a $0.50 tip instead of something more like $5). Being able to enter the tip on a device would eliminate those issues.

BTW, there are devices that implement pay at the table that are more like what Americans are used to. They aren't all that common, though, at least not yet. A possibly cheaper solution would be to just leave the device on the table while you're serving other customers, but I get staff/owners being concerned about loss/damage by doing that. In addition, tip adjust is still allowed by card network rules in the US, so a fair number of pay at the table restaurants just have people write tip amounts on receipts anyway.

Why would an interchange cap (that only applies to large issuers, mind you) impact what kinds of debit cards they go with? A bunch of smaller banks and credit unions also went the chip and signature route despite not being subject to those caps. Not to mention that credit cards are almost all chip and signature despite interchange still being uncapped.

IMO, it was more that the existing lost/stolen fraud levels weren't high enough to justify it, especially since there was already awareness that the US was two generations behind in payment technology by the time we transitioned. Completely catching up (by adopting contactless cards/mobile wallets) would mean that PIN ideally wouldn't be asked for with smaller transactions anyway (and likely never will thanks to not supporting PIN for transactions in the first place and/or having the role of PIN be replaced by biometrics).

Low Roller

I've never experienced that. I find that they generally stand back to give you some privacy while you enter the tip and pin. However, they usually feel the need to make small talk while you are completing the transaction. Drives me crazy when they ask what my plans are for the day, as if it's any of their business. I have seen a few places that will leave the handheld machine while they check on other tables, but not many.

Back on topic, a default tip of 25% is ridiculous. One local restaurant uses a machine that equates each tip with a level of service, to make you feel guilty for choosing a lower tip option. It actually gives you choices like "15% = adequate service, 18% = good service, 25% = great service".

Badenoch

I've never had a server attempt to look over my shoulder or comment on the tip amount. Did you make an issue of it at the restaurant?

Did he explain why limiting debit card merchant fees would cause banks not to introduce chip and pin? The Durbin Amendment doesn't apply to credit cards only debit.