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25% default tip !

25% default tip !

Old Nov 12, 19, 6:07 am
  #61  
 
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Last week in San Antonio and staying at a Hilton where free breakfast was provided. I was given vouchers for each day saying "breakfast is on us" and underneath "Gratuity not included". So for me and my wife the breakfast value was $22.50 each. On the check, the suggested tip was 18%, 22% and 25% of the gross value before the 100% discount was applied.

As the server literally on one day only cleared the plates away, which you could argue is not my service, but preparation for the next customer - $8 minimum suggested tip is excellent pay for the work involved. Yes I am sure they do other tasks as well, but that should be for Hilton to pay them, the service I received was nothing.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:12 am
  #62  
 
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I hardly ever post here, but tipping culture in the US is just mind boggling to me so here is my rant.


Yes, I live in the US, yes, i travel to EU and Canada often enough to see the difference of pay at the table with a tip, pay at the table without the tip, etc etc. But the tipping culture enrages me by its whole concept.


1. Why is that I am responsible for determining the well being of my server based on how much he/she smiled to me today? This is at least subjective, thus forcing the waitstaff to "read you" only to guess what is that that your highness might find worthy of paying for wrt to service? Screw you! The job of a server is to provide reasonable service, which is in a timely fashion take your order, bring your order, check up on you shortly after bringing your order and bring you a check. A recent study done on Uber's tipping data showed that the amount of tip had very little to do with the service itself and mostly was dependent on who was tipping whom (i.e. women tipping men, etc). I am with HarryHolden68 in that just tell me the final price of the item so I can make an informed decision. Side question: ... do we tip the cabbies for? For not crashing into a wall? I assumed that was included in my fare already.


2. Individually tipping waitstaff suggests that somehow the customer is responsible for weeding out bad servers. So if I frequent an establishment, I have no guarantee that from visit to visit the service quality will be consistent because if one server goes above and beyond and thus presumably deserves extraordinary tip, the other server may chose to do the bare minimum and thus deserve what, 15%? 18%? Instead I believe that the establishment must strive to provide consistent service across the board so it's not a service casino every time you sit down.

I have seen this implemented properly in most places across EU where the service is provided by the whole team, not by just one server. One person may be taking your order, the other person brings your food, and yet another person might be roaming around checking up on customers. In those cases I had never had anything bad to say about the service, because as a team the waitstaff was on top of it.

And what about the cooks? If they cook ...... food, why do we punish the waitstaff? Have you ever tipped 20% on a ...... steak? I don't think so, yet the server did nothing wrong! But I'm sure you tipped at least 20% on spectacular food brought to you in a normal timely manner, i.e. just your average service level.

3. And then there is a whole concept of tip as a percentage. Why is that bringing a $50 steak at Domenico's or w/ever costs more than bringing pretty much the same steak but priced at $10 at Mom's diner. Is your diner waiter doing any less work than your fancy premium restaurant? I worked as a waiter in a cheapo Mexican restaurant with burritos priced at $6. I don't think I ever ever had a day when I made more than $80 a shift, while the waiters downtown serving very similar burritos just priced at $20 were making money hand over fist.


You supposed to favor the whole experience, not just parts of it. Are you going to go back to a place where the service was phenomenal but the food was ....? I don't think so? Are you going to go back to place where the food was magical, but the servers were .......s? I don't think so either. So why are we separating these two parts of the experience of going to a restaurant?


Those who advocate for the tipping culture either themselves never worked for tips or just don't grasp the concept of an equal pay for equal labor (adjusted for the local cost of living, of course).


And the 4% surcharge is the a scam charge. Same really goes for the service charge and tip. If the restaurant includes these charges in the cost of the dish what will happen is that you will see what used to be a $10 dish, become a $15 or even $20 dish, while the restaurant next door still prices this very same dish at just $10 while itemizing the service charges. So, of course, you will go to the place with the cheaper food. What are you? A sucker? Of course you are not. But then when the bill comes, you pay the same as you would have paid at that other place with the $20, except it just comes as surprise as it happens to many visitors to the US. Back in the time I had less money, I actually didn't know if the $20 my pocket would cover my meal or not because you cannot reliably tell if what the final bill would be in the US.


The sad part is this ...... concept of tipping is bleeding into Europe and other places. Pay your waitstaff a proper salary and demand they do a decent job like the rest of us do in non tipping industries. Why don't you tip me every day your Internet works well? I demand a 20% service fee on top of your Internet bill because it didn't suck today!
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:17 am
  #63  
 
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I say give the staff a raise and add that to the menu price. That way you would have a better idea of what your bill will be before you order.

Those handheld card readers are becoming more common, though I've always seen an option for a write-in tip. I suspect that the suggested amounts with the highest being the default is intended to make the customer feel like a cheapskate if he selects something lower while the server is watching.

If I'm feeling generous, I tip 20% of the pre-tax amount, with cents rounded up to the nearest nickel unless I'm paying the tip (and usually the bill, too) in cash, in which case I'll usually try to come as close to my calculated tip with the bills and coins in my pocket, and I'm not embarrassed to ask for change from a larger bill.


.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:37 am
  #64  
 
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I hate tipping, but of course do it. It was interesting in New Zealand, where locals practically begged us not to tip wait staff as it wasn't the custom and they didn't want it established.

The tip I leave is always predicated on the competency of the service. I appreciate professionalism and a good attitude and can forgive slip ups if they're willingly rectified. Last night for example, we ate at a popular sports pub, part of a locally owned chain famous for treating it's customers as valued. We had an impressive waiter, competent, willing and on top of things. One item wasn't quite as ordered [we wanted the barbecue sauce on the side, not ON the ribs, which they can do] The food is brought out by table runners, not the waiter, so when the waiter came over to see if all was well, we mentioned the sauce issue. He immediately took the blame and offered to make it right. It would take a few minutes so we opted to accept the ribs as served and wiped off extra sauce. The waiter noticed and immediately brought extra napkins without bidding. I was not inclined to penalize him for the mistake and added 18% for the tip.

No one is going to get a 25% tip from me, ever. That's just absurd. And as for adding mandatory "service charges" to the bill, that's the equivalent to bag checking charges... something that should be built into the bill and not tagged on. I think we all hate being nickel and dimed for every little thing.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:40 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by crabbing View Post
i guess i am a little late to this thread. when a restaurant charges a "surcharge" for their inability to price their food in relation to the wages they pay, i do not tip and encourage everyone else not to tip.

the thing to keep in mind is that legally, restaurants are required to ensure their wait staff receive minimum wage, but the wage for servers assumes a standard 15% tip. if servers' actual wage falls below that level (e.g., customers fail to tip), the restaurant is required to make up the difference.

now in california, servers get full minimum - there is no wage adjustment, meaning tips really are a bonus. but politically speaking, any restaurant charging a surcharge is essentially pushing an anti-worker agenda. in my opinion, the only appropriate response is to encourage that restaurant's workers that they are not working for a place that best serves their interests, and hopefully will encourage the staff to leave.

Why not have employers pay a living wage rather than employees having to rely on their customers to make up the difference?
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:43 am
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by John Aldeborgh View Post
The US and apparently Canada are not is step with the world. Tipping is not a good system, it doesn't exist in Asia and it's only very minimal in the EU. In these countries being a server is a profession and the workers are paid a market based salary.
Untrue. I spent most of the past decade living in Asia- mostly in Hong Kong - where a 10% service fee was standard. Servers there are paid relatively low wages and tipping was very routine (though not expected) in addition to the service fee. The big exception to all of this was Japan, however cultural norms are quite different there as everyone knows.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:44 am
  #67  
 
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Those electronic devices add tip with tax and fees. I have seen the option to choose at 20%, 25% and 28%. Most people choose the middle one. Grrrrrr. I tip on the food only, at 18 to20% depending the service. Buffets or counter ordering get 10 to 15% (After all, I am doing mostly self service!)
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Old Nov 12, 19, 6:51 am
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by AADFW View Post
Untrue. I spent most of the past decade living in Asia- mostly in Hong Kong - where a 10% service fee was standard.
While standard for hotel or western restaurants, I've rarely seen service charges in local Chinese restaurants. Recently, a Cantonese restaurant assessed a 10% service charge on my bill, which I don't recall ever having seen the past several years. Not sure if it was something new or adapting to the challenging times.

Originally Posted by POatParker View Post
Those electronic devices add tip with tax and fees. I have seen the option to choose at 20%, 25% and 28%. Most people choose the middle one. Grrrrrr. I tip on the food only, at 18 to20% depending the service. Buffets or counter ordering get 10 to 15% (After all, I am doing mostly self service!)
I recently experienced this at Applebee's in NY. Cashier said, "20% ok?" I replied, "no, lower it to 18%." The service was excellent, but if it had been less than stellar, I would have instructed lowering to 15% or even 10%.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 7:18 am
  #69  
 
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I was taught 15% on the cost of food. Lots of places now have a recommended tip based on the cost of food, plus tax plus any other charges. So, that 15% is no longer 15%.

Just raise the cost of food, pay your staff a decent wage, and stop with the tipping.
Tipping is the one thing hubby and I argue about.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 7:32 am
  #70  
 
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First, when it comes to tipping in the US, I pay between 15-20% pre-tax, never more than 20. If the service was really poor, then it is zero. Every time I have been presented with a check choices for "suggested tip", I have always found an "other" line to use.

Having lived overseas in both China and Europe, I firmly adhere to the "when in Rome" principle. Complaining about different structures will not change them ("why don't they pay them a living wage?"). I happily pay no tip when traveling outside of North America. And yes, the tableside devices that are ubiquitous in the rest of the world are slow coming to the US because businesses refuse to pay the extra fees. It is now becoming more prevalent to add fees because one is using a card. As I refuse to pay the fees, I simply use cash or my check book (how is that for an anachronism.. but it works).
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Old Nov 12, 19, 7:38 am
  #71  
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I detest tipping, in the UK if it is exceptional I will leave 10%. Other than that I won't bother and I have no qualms about pressing F1=NO TIP, or asking them to remove the optional service charge if it has been added saying I will leave cash as the tip. In the US I am also getting fed up with the suggestions creeping up and in some cases starting at 18% as are my US friends. I'd rather just have it all included and know what I am going to pay - if they want to take the gamble on a tip then that is what it is.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 7:43 am
  #72  
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25% tipping at US restaurants as a default? Crazy. Even 18% should be optional.

Restaurants have raised their prices, so even a 15% tip on the ordered food and drink means more money than it used to mean.

Also, nothing stops restaurants in the US from raising the wages the restaurants pay their employees. Especially not at a time when the labor market is as tight as it is. If anything, the public and the employees are done a long-term service when they are encouraged to to ditch their cheap employers who have made their employees over-reliant on tips from customers.

About tipping/service charges in Asia, a lot of those service charges are de facto revenue for the employers in Asia and not passed on directly to the employees providing the service.

Last edited by GUWonder; Nov 12, 19 at 7:49 am
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Old Nov 12, 19, 7:45 am
  #73  
 
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Need to get a thick skin against the tipping culture in US. I make it a point to not tip at all in the US. I've had wait staff argue with me, called a cheapskate, countless eye rolls and murmur swearing. I don't care, I don't live there, travel there for work occasionally. I detest the tipping culture there, it's gone from optional for exceptional service to being mandatory (without it legally being mandatory).

If in the mood to engage with the wait staff, I tell them their managers/corporate is responsible for their pay and shouldn't be on the customers to cover the shortfall
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Old Nov 12, 19, 8:01 am
  #74  
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Originally Posted by homa2001 View Post
I hardly ever post here, but tipping culture in the US is just mind boggling to me so here is my rant.


Yes, I live in the US, yes, i travel to EU and Canada often enough to see the difference of pay at the table with a tip, pay at the table without the tip, etc etc. But the tipping culture enrages me by its whole concept.


1. Why is that I am responsible for determining the well being of my server based on how much he/she smiled to me today? This is at least subjective, thus forcing the waitstaff to "read you" only to guess what is that that your highness might find worthy of paying for wrt to service? Screw you! The job of a server is to provide reasonable service, which is in a timely fashion take your order, bring your order, check up on you shortly after bringing your order and bring you a check. A recent study done on Uber's tipping data showed that the amount of tip had very little to do with the service itself and mostly was dependent on who was tipping whom (i.e. women tipping men, etc). I am with HarryHolden68 in that just tell me the final price of the item so I can make an informed decision. Side question: ... do we tip the cabbies for? For not crashing into a wall? I assumed that was included in my fare already.


2. Individually tipping waitstaff suggests that somehow the customer is responsible for weeding out bad servers. So if I frequent an establishment, I have no guarantee that from visit to visit the service quality will be consistent because if one server goes above and beyond and thus presumably deserves extraordinary tip, the other server may chose to do the bare minimum and thus deserve what, 15%? 18%? Instead I believe that the establishment must strive to provide consistent service across the board so it's not a service casino every time you sit down.

I have seen this implemented properly in most places across EU where the service is provided by the whole team, not by just one server. One person may be taking your order, the other person brings your food, and yet another person might be roaming around checking up on customers. In those cases I had never had anything bad to say about the service, because as a team the waitstaff was on top of it.

And what about the cooks? If they cook ...... food, why do we punish the waitstaff? Have you ever tipped 20% on a ...... steak? I don't think so, yet the server did nothing wrong! But I'm sure you tipped at least 20% on spectacular food brought to you in a normal timely manner, i.e. just your average service level.

3. And then there is a whole concept of tip as a percentage. Why is that bringing a $50 steak at Domenico's or w/ever costs more than bringing pretty much the same steak but priced at $10 at Mom's diner. Is your diner waiter doing any less work than your fancy premium restaurant? I worked as a waiter in a cheapo Mexican restaurant with burritos priced at $6. I don't think I ever ever had a day when I made more than $80 a shift, while the waiters downtown serving very similar burritos just priced at $20 were making money hand over fist.


You supposed to favor the whole experience, not just parts of it. Are you going to go back to a place where the service was phenomenal but the food was ....? I don't think so? Are you going to go back to place where the food was magical, but the servers were .......s? I don't think so either. So why are we separating these two parts of the experience of going to a restaurant?


Those who advocate for the tipping culture either themselves never worked for tips or just don't grasp the concept of an equal pay for equal labor (adjusted for the local cost of living, of course).


And the 4% surcharge is the a scam charge. Same really goes for the service charge and tip. If the restaurant includes these charges in the cost of the dish what will happen is that you will see what used to be a $10 dish, become a $15 or even $20 dish, while the restaurant next door still prices this very same dish at just $10 while itemizing the service charges. So, of course, you will go to the place with the cheaper food. What are you? A sucker? Of course you are not. But then when the bill comes, you pay the same as you would have paid at that other place with the $20, except it just comes as surprise as it happens to many visitors to the US. Back in the time I had less money, I actually didn't know if the $20 my pocket would cover my meal or not because you cannot reliably tell if what the final bill would be in the US.


The sad part is this ...... concept of tipping is bleeding into Europe and other places. Pay your waitstaff a proper salary and demand they do a decent job like the rest of us do in non tipping industries. Why don't you tip me every day your Internet works well? I demand a 20% service fee on top of your Internet bill because it didn't suck today!
You pay more in a tip at an establishment that charges more because, theoretically, you are paying for a better experience. The server should be more attentive, there are more courses, meals take longer, etc.

I actually know several people who worked as servers, who were very good at their jobs and who passed up on management positions because they knew they could make far more in tips than they could moving to a non-tipping position.
Originally Posted by MimiB22 View Post
I hate tipping, but of course do it. It was interesting in New Zealand, where locals practically begged us not to tip wait staff as it wasn't the custom and they didn't want it established.

The tip I leave is always predicated on the competency of the service. I appreciate professionalism and a good attitude and can forgive slip ups if they're willingly rectified. Last night for example, we ate at a popular sports pub, part of a locally owned chain famous for treating it's customers as valued. We had an impressive waiter, competent, willing and on top of things. One item wasn't quite as ordered [we wanted the barbecue sauce on the side, not ON the ribs, which they can do] The food is brought out by table runners, not the waiter, so when the waiter came over to see if all was well, we mentioned the sauce issue. He immediately took the blame and offered to make it right. It would take a few minutes so we opted to accept the ribs as served and wiped off extra sauce. The waiter noticed and immediately brought extra napkins without bidding. I was not inclined to penalize him for the mistake and added 18% for the tip.

No one is going to get a 25% tip from me, ever. That's just absurd. And as for adding mandatory "service charges" to the bill, that's the equivalent to bag checking charges... something that should be built into the bill and not tagged on. I think we all hate being nickel and dimed for every little thing.
I will happily tip 25% or more at times. Mr. Kipper and I visit the same diner for breakfast at least once/week. Our check is usually $18, the server knows what we will order and keeps the coffee mugs filled. When both of us are there, she receives a $6 tip. When only one of us is there, she receives a $5 tip, because the work she has to do isn't cut in half. Tipping her 18% would be slightly over $3, which considering how much work she does (we drink a lot of coffee), isn't nearly enough.
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Old Nov 12, 19, 8:48 am
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by John Aldeborgh View Post
The US and apparently Canada are not is step with the world. Tipping is not a good system, it doesn't exist in Asia and it's only very minimal in the EU. In these countries being a server is a profession and the workers are paid a market based salary. As someone who spends roughly 50% of his life traveling internationally I find the tipping system repugnant, restaurateurs should pay their people fairly and servers should act professionally, so customers don't need to be math experts or feel guilty about the tipping process.
While I'm neither advocating for nor defending it, there are many other countries in the world where tipping is the norm - including in parts of South America, Africa, and Asia.

Originally Posted by homa2001 View Post

The sad part is this ...... concept of tipping is bleeding into Europe and other places.
Which is funny, since the concept came to North America from Europe in the first place!

I would prefer not to have to mess with tipping, personally, but of all the things that concern me in my life, tipping is pretty close to the bottom of the list. 25% as a default is pretty silly though IMHO.
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