Agreed, but more importantly the DYKWIA factor for PM's who don't qualify for DM just took a big hit.

Future PM: "DYKWIA? , DYKWIA?"

GA: Unspoken thought ('Yes, you are not a top tier customer'): "Here is your coach BP"

If any level took a hit, PM just lost a lot of its lustre.

It definitely looks that way. I never seriously considered a move to AA until now. I'm a hub captive that has flown almost exclusively on DL/NW for the past 13yrs. I'll do 150-200k/year int'l over the foreseeable future. Yes, the route network and ease of use of NW/DL from DTW wins hands down - but they're pushing me out with ridiculous M/B/Y pricing to Europe (and to a certain extent Asia), and DM status is not enough to keep me attached. My travel budget (well, my division's, which I control) can no longer justify the premium DL is demanding; I expect to start buying discount fares before year end. If AA gets me up front even 50% of the time, at lower cost, it's worth the risk of connecting.

That's a minimum of $30k to $40k/year revenue that DL risks losing thanks to pricing and weak DM benefits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset about this. They made a business decision and are betting that enough premium YBM customers stick around to offset the loss of a few like me. They could be right.

At one point when ATLDLFF was working to expand the availabity & all the events were wide open again, I even cross-referenced it in the NW forum.

Plus all NW flyers should be reading the DL forum these days. Can't emphasize that strongly enough! Just look at the active users count/list at the bottoms of the forum indices: 3X as many in DL as NW at the moment. The DL forum is where the active discussions are.

GLD and PLT on Y/B fares do not pay stickers. The accounting can look funny, however, since the computer debits and then re-credits offsetting sticker amounts. You will find GLD life iffy; PLT is actually rather satisfying.

Some further facts about life in the AA system...

FULL FARE

The class B rarely appears domestically, but can often be attractive for international trips, especially if comparing for upgrades against a facially cheaper class of remaining discount coach.

The class Y always seems to be priced high, but on AA Y is also the booking code given to negotiated corporate fares, and some of those are quite cheap. Negotiated corporate Y fares are eligible for unlimited free upgrades for GLD and PLT. Government fares are not.

DOMESTIC UPGRADES

The 500-mile system is easy for EXP's: free and unlimited with quite a good hit percentage. For PLT and GLD, it is only totally free on Y and B fares. Otherwise, stickers must be tendered; they can be earned, or bought (for miles or for cash).

What is the effect of the paying part? By putting some price on things, it increases hit percentage for those who are the most keen on hitting. One PLT will decide 600 miles is not worth doing as compared to a sure booking in the exit row, and another PLT will decide even 600 miles needs an upgrade. The end result is decent upgrade percentages as PLT. A GLD's upgrade percentage could be good (e.g., caribbean off season) or negligible (e.g., LAX-JFK on a Sunday night).


PARTNERS

AA has several different kinds of partners; their relationships are complex. What's simple for AA (unlike UA) is the issue of upgrades on partners: at present there are none. well, op-ups and the like, when oneworld partners go by statuses, but nothing formal..

1. Alaska (AS). Flights on AS count almost identically to flights on AA, with full EQM and EQP elite credit.

2. BA. BA runs one of the stingiest major ff programs in the world, and with no apologies (go see the BA forum!). This spills over into oneworld. Until further notice (probably if/when ATI comes from DoT), BA flights between London and the USA cannot earn AA miles at all, nor be used for award flights. The ban does not apply to London-Canada/Mexico/Caribbean/Bermuda/S America. Discount flights on BA earn only fractional miles and elite qualifying points, but if flights are codeshared and booked AA-coded, the AA flight rules apply instead.

3. other oneworld partners. If codeshared and booked in the AA code, these are treated as pure AA flights. If booked in the partner code, or not codeshared, these are eligible to earn miles and/or status. How much? depends on the partner. Some partners give full miles for discount fares (e.g., AY), and some don't (e.g., IB). Some offer full elite bonuses (QF, AY), and some do not (JL, BA). Mexicana joins in 2009, and S7 Russian Airlines in 2010.

4. other partners. These have a chance to earn you some miles, but they do nothing for elite qualifying. some partners are for redemptions only.

REDEMPTIONS

AA has recently switched to one-way redemptions. There are 3 kinds.

1. AA-only. The main distinction with these is the option to use double
the basic mileage to get last seat (F/J/Y booking class) availability, called AAnytime. AAnytime flyers are treated as full fare payers, with no baggage fees etc.

2. All Partners. One-way, by zones and classses. Very restricted opportunities to stop over.

3. Oneworld Award. These are redemptions with cost determined by total distance flown. oneworld partners only, and must have two non-AA partners involved. The plus to these is no restrictions on stopovers.

Thanks for the update, I guess the challenge desk gave me the wrong info. Still, domestic upgrades seem complex and unpredictable on AA. My company only allows no penalty or fully refundable for special circumstances, the rest of the time it is lowest fare available. My itin's are often fare code alphabet soup with a mixture of deep and discounted fare codes yet I do great with upgrades on DL.

While currently there is just marginal difference between PM and DM, I'll stick it out with DL, be an inaugural DM and try to maximize my rollover EQMs for the balance of this year. I have some west cost business projected in Q4 and may turn 1 or 2 trips into an MR PLT challenge on AA as a backup plan. If DL would sweeten DM just a bit I would commit to them exclusively.

Don't think this has been posted yet.

Compare Delta with our competitor's loyalty programs
http://www.delta.com/components/popu...ram_detail.jsp


Expanded Award Seat Availability for All Elites
Good to see it is still available.
Hopefully under this benefit DMs will get better availability than this years PMs.

What does Permanent Choice Benefits mean?

And it was previously stated (or assumed) there would be 3 CB for DM in 2010, 1 for being a PM and then 2 more when DM launched. Does this mean DM's qualifying in 2009 may only get 2 Choice Benefits in 2010 (not get their 2010 PM CB)?

Small point: the "M" fares on Delta are comparable to AA's "H" and/or "K" fares in many TATL markets. For H and K fares, AA only gives 1X EQPs (the points system is the preferable method to use when buying more premium fares).

Again, speaking from personal experience, for someone who buys a combination of premium fares as well as the rock-bottom ones, I get penalized one way or another with elite qualification accumulation on AA (if I choose EQMs, I don't get bonuses for Y or B or J or F; if I choose EQPs, I don't get 50% for the cheapies).

The others have offered analogues of choice benefits, but as promos, not as standing Permanent Choice features of the program. For instance, AA offered a promo with choice of benefits to flyers surpassing one tier (but not reaching the next, for GLD or PLT): at 40,000 for GLD, 75,000 for PLT, and 125,000 for EXP you could earn CB's.

Like much of that "Comparison" table, it is a strategic wording choice designed to hinder a full-information comparison. Any one of the four airlines in there could have produced a similar table, each carefully choosing its own best wordings and categories.

As a product, IMHO:

• FO and GM are very competitive compare to AA, UA and CO.
• PM is also competitive at 75k MQM qualification.
• DM is however a joke compared to UA's 1k and AA's EXP (more miles required and weak PMUs).

As I've mentioned a few times, they really need to throw the DM's a few bones. At a minimum, one would be either 2 SWU's usable on any published fare, or else let them use two standard SWU's on HKQ.
The other, which occurred to me after reading a few of the other threads on this board (notably the Lounge™ thread), would be a new line item in the choice rewards: a pack of 50 drink coupons. I do believe there are a few of my friends here who could go through that many in a month.

i was wonder , has any folks sent comments to DL about being unimpressed with the 4th tier benefits?

Yes. Somewhere upstream I posted the text of my letter. I'll search for it.

edit to add: Here it is.

Obviously both of these posters ignored the mantra of "burn baby burn" that has been repeated over and over here at FlyerTalk for the last two or three years.

This would not be one of my choices. With my upgrades running at 100 percent YTD (on upgrade eligible flights, of course); what would I do with 50 drink chits?