pbarnette

Considering that all of the other major US airlines issued similar warnings, I think we can say it is very unlikely that the declines are being driven by SM changes.

GRALISTAIR

Pre-frickin-Cisely.

cestmoi123

Here's the thing - I actually prefer a system where I know that, if I want to use miles for a seat, there's one available, and then I can decide if the price is right, than one where the seats simply don't exist.

For example, if I want to use Skymiles to go JFK-LHR-JFK in BE on any date in September, I can. Depending on the day, the ticket might be 70-120k miles, each way, but they're there. Compare that with BA, where there isn't a single Business Class seat available JFK-LHR with Avios for the entire month of September. None. Nada. Or, compare it to AA, where there are seats at the Saver level on just five days in September. For the rest, you're looking at Anytime Awards, which are 110k and up, so at or above Delta redemption levels.

gooselee

This. Many FTers fail to recognize that people make their purchase decisions on a multitude of factors that are far more important than mileage earning.

But this assumes that many/most people make their paid flight choices based on the potential future redemption value of the RDM they will earn. This simply isn't true.

If you mostly fly DL because they offer the best product, routing, schedule, and price for the O/Ds you need to get to/from, the question you are asking is not what you can get for AA miles, but what you can get for DL miles.

If you fly so much that you have a diversified mileage portfolio across many programs, that gives you additional choice. But I cannot believe that the majority of airline customers are making their purchase decisions based on the mileage programs.

This is, of course, true.

But my point remains - if the award program works well for me, it doesn't so much matter whether or not DL is winning any awards. After all, aren't half the posts in this thread (and so many others) about how well the FFP works for that particular poster?

This +1,000. It continually amazes me how many people on FT fail to recognize that for the vast majority of passengers, the primary decision factors in what airline/flights are taken are aligned to routing, schedule, and price - NOT FFP rewards. The goal of air travel is transportation from A to B, not accruing an imaginary currency that could be taken away (not devalued, just straight taken away) at any given time.

Those rewards are nice, of course, but they are nothing more than the cherry on top of the icing on the cake.

TheBOSman

Except QF does release multiple F/J seats, on every flight. They just get snapped up very quickly, and the AA booking window is shorter than those in other Oneworld FF programs, so many of those award seats never become available to AA bookers. Perhaps they are underpricing them, but QF severely devalued Qantas Frequent Flyer not long ago (If DL has Skypesos, QFF is surely Zimbabwean dollars...), so it seems doubtful that it is that.

DL similarly has terrible award availability on their own metal LAX-SYD, and in December and January there are quite a few days where business class awards show as not available, even if willing to pay 870,000 miles (ignoring PWM for a moment).

The award availability strength is with Virgin Australia, who (despite QF's recent difficulties) is still well behind in terms of number of frequent flyers, network, brand loyalty, corporate contracts, and hard product than QF, DL, and UA. I've flown VA in J to and from Australia, it is a fantastic trip, but in many ways the current 2-3-2 seating is not competitive to a lot of people. DL is better at 1-2-1, and while UA's 2-4-2 isn't good for sure, and QF's 2-2-2 upstairs on A380 is not quite as good as DL, both also offer the opportunity to upgrade to F, which DL and VA do not offer. VA realizes this, and will be installing 1-2-1 seating in their J cabin, but don't be surprised if that excellent award availability takes a tumble, and don't expect DL to help by releasing more of their own seats at saver levels.


That all said, as long as VA continues to release premium cabin awards, Skymiles is by far the best option for getting to/from Australia. If you want to go to Australia in a premium cabin, collect Skymiles. But if that dries up (and it very easily could once VA installs 1-2-1), then that advantage is gone.

pbarnette

I'm not sure it would be possible for me to care less than I do about how many people it works well for.

pbarnette

Even if all of that is true, that doesn't really disprove my point that UA and AA do not offer significant low mileage availability on the route.

I'm not concerned with whether it is DL metal or not. Considering that you can't open a thread like this without having to listen to some AA fan prattle on about their great partners, or endure some UA fan drone on about how once a year redemptions on NH or OZ make flying the worst of the majors all worthwhile, I don't think most of FT is overly concerned with whether it is DL metal either. Oh, they may claim they care, but only if it is convenient for their argument.

krlcomm

Sort of related to the topic... Anyone read RA's "interview" w/ the loyalty program VP (sorry, forgot his name!) in this month's magazine? Apparently Sky Pesos is the best program going, lol. Someone just forgot to tell the customers.

In fairness I don't have a problem w/ the FFP and don't choose any airline because of the FFP, I just thought the "interview" was pretty funny!

TheBOSman

I don't much care about the metal either, since I actually flew VA J that should be obvious . Not really attempting to disprove your point, as I agree with it when it comes to going to Australia, Skymiles is the best option currently. QF could release every seat as an award, but it doesn't help the value of AAdvantage if none of them reach the AA booking window. But if VA stops releasing as many awards as they do now, and they could possibly cut back once the seat layout is changed (as IMO it will be the best overall J product on the route once they do that, as the soft product is already near F standards), then DL simply reaches the same level as UA and AA where low level awards are very difficult to get.

GUWonder

Then how many people on FT amaze you (for whatever it is that amazes you as noted above)? I'm curious about the number of those people on FT and how you arrived at your count.

avidflyer

I am COMPLETELY missing why you not only have an account, but actively post in, a FREQUENT FLYER PROGRAM internet forum. The people here presumably DO care about the programs or the forum would not exist.

I said it in another thread: You and many posters who follow your same logic may well be right...but why on EARTH would you care to read about the frequent flyer program you so do not care about....

pbarnette

Just because you aren't motivated by an FF program doesn't mean you won't maximize it if available.

And, FWIW, I think this whole "this is a FF forum" nonsense that is trotted out routinely is beyond stupid. Moreover, I think those saying it know it. There is a lot of great information on this site that has nothing to do with FF programs. Indeed, I'd say the majority of the information on this site has nothing to do with FF programs. To use the "this is a FF forum" canard to try and stifle dissenting views is disingenuous BS. And you are better than that and you know it.

avidflyer

The NAME of this particular forum we are posting in right now is "Delta Airlines Skylines"

GUWonder

Delta Air Lines SkyMiles. But it may as well be taken as Delta Air Lines SkyLies, given DL management's customer-unfriendly shenanigans aimed at SkyMiles customers.

Apparently the DL FFP matters enough to the DL CEO that he keeps mentioning it. Quite an interesting approach if the DL FFP didn't matter that much to DL management and to DL customers.

CPMaverick

I am that person. Why shame on me? Virgin Australia is a great airline, and gives good RDM and MQM on Delta. And they reward Delta PLT and above with free lounge access, free bags, and free same-day flight changes.

I find the Diamond upgrade certs very useful for the long-hauls to the US and Skymiles can be better than Velocity in some ways.

So why shame on me? Or is it that you have no idea what it would be like to live in Australia and collect Skymiles? You are just ignorant of what you are slamming. Nice trolling.