pbarnette

I have no doubt that there are people that both understand why DL is doing what they are doing AND get the best value from SkyMiles. The DL program is not the best for traditional collectors, but the idea that it isn't actually the best for some people is almost certainly false.

avidflyer

Completely agree but "some" does not equal winning any awards that is for sure.

pbarnette

I personally don't care how many awards SkyMiles wins.

LETTERBOY

Still wouldn't happen, because there aren't enough people who care about this for it to matter. And then you'd have the 'Merica crowd (I don't like that term & consider it demeaning, but there's no other word I know of) and the unions making noise. And they can make a lot of noise.

Foreign nationals are prohibited by law from donating to US political campaigns. I don't know the rules for foreign corporations, but I'd be extremely surprised if what you're suggesting is allowed to any great degree.

flyerslc

I have never expected very much from any FF program. In the past, BA incurred a lot of extra fees, hundreds of dollars in some cases. I still have a bunch of US miles I haven't been able to find a reasonable use for. As long as I can get a flight for 1.5 cents per mile equivalent, I am happy as that is what I get in rebates from my other cards. So having a Delta Amex and flying enough to be PM or DM gets me seated in C+ all the time, occasional upgrades, and free bags. Award tickets are essentially a fully changeable ticket for me, which makes their value inestimably more than a typical coach ticket. The Skymiles as a DM or PM are basically a pretty decent discount on the sticker price of the ticket. Combined with the almost universal good customer service compared to most American companies I deal with and good on-time stats, the fact that they may be less generous with award tickets than they used to be is a minor issue. For me anyway.

avidflyer

Right but this is a forum for exactly that.

gooselee

Dammit! Here I was thinking this was a forum about giraffes and tea preparation devices.

But I think the point is that if DL still provides a viable reward program for me, that is what matters more, to me, than an award they can put on a shelf down on VA Ave.

Other things matter differently to other people, and that's fine, too.

javabytes

Certainly the award program may work well for you personally regardless of how many awards it wins. One has to think, however, that if it worked well for more people, it might win more awards.

bubbashow

Operational excellence is going to beat a FF program with ANY serious business traveler. If I NEED to be somewhere, I NEED to be somewhere. DL is building a stellar reputation on being able to deliver that promise. They are building brand loyalty for the RIGHT reasons...not because Freddy the Freeloader got to fly his family front cabin to Disneyworld.

mattp1987

Doesn't WN's program consistently win awards? It's easy to understand and doesn't require any nuanced thinking or searching to redeem, but it also has zero aspirational awards. I don't fly WN often, but I burn as soon as I have enough points for a one-way on a flight I would buy anyway because there's no reason to save.

I'd much rather have a program like DL's where I can put in some effort and book business class awards on partners to international destinations. To me, that's a lot more rewarding than saving a couple hundred dollars on a domestic ticket (although domestic redemptions do have their places but lose their value considerably in fixed-value programs like WN compared to a program like DL where you can get a last minute ticket for the same price as a ticket booked 11 months out if availability is there). Then again, I choose to continue flying DL because of the Medallion benefits, namely C+ seating, upgrade percentage north of 75% on the routes I fly, and improved IROPS handling. The awards are just gravy.

GUWonder

The operational performance compensation thing is another DL gimmick, an even bigger joke and cheaper gimmick than the DL SkyMiles gimmickry. Any serious corporate travel buyer swayed by that DL "guarantee" needs to have their head checked if they think it's going to improve the travel benefits for their employees and others whose travel is "covered" by this operational performance gimmick.

GUWonder

Foreign nationals lobby the USG each and every day, and foreign companies and governments are a major source of money for the proverbially well-heeled on K Street. And foreign nationals resident in the U.S. can and do legally fund political campaigns in the U.S. And I'm just waiting to see when foreign citizens not resident in the U.S. try to claim that their First Amendment rights are being violated by restrictions on foreign nationals contributing to US political campaigns. Maybe the GCC3 can fund the case as payback against DL.

luv2ctheworld

Don't disagree; the question is what is the alternative (i.e. AA/UA offering) for those same dates? If the dates/routes are the same, and it is available at the standard 120K-160K (whatever it may be on the award chart - something DL doesn't even tell you about), then it is safe to say DL is asking a heck of a lot more for something that is available for less elsewhere. And I can see why that would earn them the Skypeso moniker.

Saying QF doesn't release award space is like the complaint people make here about not seeing 25K awards and only 40K awards; they are there; you can't just wave your hand and say it doesn't count.

That said, I wonder what's a "fair" redemption on DL for economy is compared to QF/AA, or UA.

And 300K is not the norm for AA or UA unless one is looking at the Anytime type of award... by the looks of the 750K, that would be equivalent to. So still 2x more than UA/AA.

RaflW

Delta only cares if the awards will earn them more customers who are profitable. I don't see RA caring about US News rankings, it isn't a ranking that most people will notice or remember 48 hours from now.

I read recently that DL is earning a domestic revenue premium of 15% per seatmile vs. UA and AA. Unless the SkyMiles devaluations/changes so alienate customers that they leave in droves, impacting DLs revenue and profit numbers, they won't care who is mad.

That said, DL has advised of declining returns for Q3/Q4. Is any of that related to SM changes? Very hard to tell for us, probably not even very easy for DL to tease out. Market conditions seem to be the main driver of that. We'll see if it turns into a serious industry slump, they may have to add back some SM value & transparency. Maybe.

pbarnette

Did you miss where I used the phrases, "pretty much" and "most of the time"?

I am looking at what is available. In my experience and in my recent searches, those anytime awards are what is usually (e.g. the majority of the days) available.

For example, looking at AA's calendar (I acknowledge there may be some gaps) from January to June, they show exactly one date with 2 award seats available in a premium cabin on LAX-SYD and nothing for the return. Shaving it to one premium cabin ticket, there look to be around 20 dates for the outbound over 6 months.

DL, on the other hand, is a veritable sea of low awards for much of the period. In February, for example, every day but two has two seats showing as being available on LAX-SYD in low. March, every day but two. April, every day. May, every day but one. June, every day but four.

Cutting through the hyperbole and the often disingenuous references to extreme prices, DL isn't nearly as uncompetitive as some claim. To be clear, I'm not claiming that they are the best program for redemptions, nor that the recent changes aren't unfavorable, just that the verdant fields that are routinely proclaimed as existing "over there" are often much more brown than promised.