GUWonder

And that is how it mainly goes for the OPM traveling crowd -- at least for those who have their flights booked by/via TMCs.

Unless the more convenient flight schedule (available for booking) was operated by a notoriously lousy carrier, checking out stats for the airline as a whole was usually not even an afterthought. It was more common to checking out particular flight reliability, but airline level stats for a US major? Sounds more like the work of an idle, anti-social type than anyone else.

Zeeb

Yep. When you're traveling FFP returns can have a positive quality of life impact if you make use of them ("Sorry I'm gone again this week honey, but I've almost got enough miles for that trip to Paris in business class!") And outside of being in a hub city, you are probably going to have to connect and give up at least half a day traveling no matter what. So while times of flights do matter, there is leeway. Getting to the airport at 6AM and arriving to your location at noon isn't much different than getting to the airport at 6:30 and arriving at 11:30. FFP benefits, including mileage accrual, make it worth sticking with the same airline when the schedules don't line up perfectly. I know I'm willing to spend a little more time in an airplane if I know I'll at least have a preferred seat, and have a good shot at being in first via an upgrade. There is a huge middle class of travelers who are on OPM, flying regularly for work, that don't have access to FCM and who will definitely go a little bit out of their way to stick with their preferred airline. Nothing crazy, but a longer layover, slightly less convenient flight, stuff like that. For some people that airline is American, for some it is Delta, and for some it is United. If you are at a decent sized non-hub airport all three probably have similar levels of service available.

If you fly a lot of business and first class then FFPs aren't as important to you because you are buying the benefits with the ticket instead of with consistency, and accruing enough miles that you don't need to concern yourself with keeping them all on one carrier.

If you fly rarely and just buy the absolute cheapest tickets then FFPs aren't as important to you because you only care about price and don't accrue enough miles for it to matter anyways.

The second group doesn't post much on FT, but the first group does. And the reason threads devolve into arguments is that there are also a whole lot of the middle class of flyers on FT, including myself, and the first group finds it preposterous to think that FFP benefits matter to others, since they don't matter to them. Add in the Delta Stockholders to that equation and everything is a recipe for arguments.

gooselee

I completely agree. I just think that the majority of flyers think of FFP benefits and mileage accrual as far less important factors than what some FTers believe they do.

Again, agree. I don't think many people are looking at reliability stats in general, but many regular travelers spread their trips across all the major airlines and have a general sense that Airline X tends to be more on time than Airline Y, or that ORD is a miserable connection point in January, or whatever else.

And even infrequent travelers are using their personal anecdotal experience, however flawed, to make choices based on perceived reliability. They're thinking: My cousin Julie said she got stuck in a storm on that flight she took through ATL, so I'm going to go through CLT instead since it's the same price and times.

Also, I would say that within time constraints, price is a much bigger concern for people than FFP.

I think you're spot on that we get into these arguments because different posters are coming in with different experiences, priorities, and preferences.

But, I'd point out that we're all starting to say the same thing: FFPs are one of many factors in making a purchase decision. But it's a factor that only comes into play when other, far more important factors come out essentially even.

I stand by my opinion that the majority travelers of all categories are primarily selecting flights based on price, schedule, and perceived product quality, with FFP benefits acting as a tiebreaker. You could argue that FFP benefits affect product quality, and I would agree with that, but then again, this whole conversation started because we were talking about mileage accrual and RDM value.

mhbaker

After 1.5 million miles on DL, I took my business elsewhere when I saw the steady devaluation of SkyMiles. I’ve had one paid segment in the last six years although I had a stack of SkyMiles which have kept me on domestic DL flights and as the occasional visitor to this board. Reading this thread, I’m surprised at how little has changed in the conversation about SkyMiles as the inexorable decline of the program has continued. I’m particular amused about the discussion of inflated mileage requirements. This certainly is nothing new. Six years ago, when attempting to use miles for trips to Europe, I was routinely quoted 750,000 to 1,000,000 miles for a business class ticket. It happened frequently enough that I quit even looking for those tickets on DL. This discussion has also left me feeling quite satisfied about my use of 200,000 Avios (BA miles) for two business class tickets to Australia last February on Cathay Pacific—a truly exceptional experience. So, the discussion continues as does DL’s customer unfriendly practices. At some point the DL apologists will have to concede that there are sound reasons (not just media bias) for all of the negative reporting / publicity of the SkyMiles program—the latest being the U.S. News survey which ranks DL at the bottom of domestic ff programs. If a frequent flyer program is not that important to you, I concede that DL is an excellent airline in most other respects. Personally, I see no reason to come back as a paying customer.

mridley2

I think you have a point, bubba!

That said people like me who travel 25% business and 75% leisure though still rake in 100k miles per year will still look for the best value in award redemption & benefits. Delta may still end up being the best airline all things considered but I'm going to give myself 2016 to discover that. Will see where I land in 2nd half 2016 and beyond.

jaymar01

From BizJournal ....

Delta loves to tell its own story, but frequent flyers don’t believe all they hear

"Does bad press about one awful component of an otherwise well-run airline impact the carrier's reputation and ability to become the "investment-grade" company Anderson so wants Delta to be? A half-dozen branding experts I consulted in recent days think so. More telling, five responded with some variation of "awful frequent flyer program" when I asked them for the first thing they thought of when they considered Delta.

Even before Delta's recent SkyMiles devaluations and changes, a now-retired Delta C-suite executive told me that the airline's management knew SkyMiles was the least-liked aspect of the carrier. "We know its reputation and we do want to change it," he said.

Silly me. I thought he meant SkyMiles would get better. It hasn't and it'll be fascinating to see if Delta can ignore the shade being thrown in its direction while the carrier's merry band of "storytellers" keep plugging an entirely different narrative."

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjourna...-critique.html

SJC ORD LDR

On the other hand, the article points out DL's strengths including a much better on time and reliability factor than their competition and their moves to fly fewer RJs.

javabytes

Millions of serious business travelers rely on all 3 of the legacy carriers to get them where they need to go. DL's operational performance may be better than UA and AA, but don't kid yourself that they're worlds apart. Many consider UA and AA to be perfectly acceptable when it comes to operational performance.

A serious business traveler might consider schedule first and foremost. But there is no doubt that the FF program often factors into the purchase decision. If I am DM on Delta and dirt on AA, and planning to maintain that status in both programs, I certainly may choose a connecting flight or a more expensive flight on Delta vs. a cheaper or non-stop option on AA, within a reasonable price range and if my schedule allows. If I'm flying home from LAX on a redeye and I have a decent shot at an upgrade to a flat bed seat vs. a 100% guarantee of a plain old coach seat, you bet that's going to be a factor in my purchase decision.

DL2SXM

DL2SXM

so, I have just spent the past half hour trying in vane to find a last minute (within 14 days) award ticket for travel in D1 in excess of 500,000 miles. I have been unsuccessful. JFK to JNB in J all on Virgin through LHR for as low as 160,000 miles. That is just one example. JFK - SYD, JFK - IST, JFK - SIN etc etc. All very modestly priced mileage wise.

hazelrah

Delta second to last rated airline rewards program 2015 by U.S. News and World Report -

http://travel.usnews.com/Rankings/Tr...rline-rewards/

javabytes

He said that was 6 years ago. And he is not alone - there were plenty of examples of insane pricing spewed from the award booking engine at the time. I'm sure you can find examples if you search the archives. Back then, with published award charts, we knew that kind of pricing represented an IT failure.

DL2SXM

I don't live in the past. I live for what I see going on today and in the future. Plus, the basis of this thread is about current and future insane award pricing.

DL2SXM

Just checked AA V. DL for business class awards from JFK - HKG for next week. Best you can do on AA is 350,000 miles whereas with DL you can get it for 285,000

Another for next week...JFK to PVG on AA comes in at 350,000...DL is 295,000.

Delta handily beats AA to a pulp in both HKG and the PVG markets.

javabytes

In the past, with published award charts, you knew a 750,000 mile ticket was a mistake. Starting next June, you know it's intentional.