Sky Club beverage changes confirmed by DL
Jun 7, 2013, 8:57 pm
#1471
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I suspect it is not actually distilled under license, but by Diageo in Canada. My guess would be in an old Seagrams distillery. And I doubt it is distilled under license, but would not preclude the idea that it is contract manufactured.
Regardless, the idea that multinational corporations with revenues in the GBP 15bn range don't keep tight control over their intellectual property and are careless about product consistency is, well, laughable. But feel free to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want to believe.
Regardless, the idea that multinational corporations with revenues in the GBP 15bn range don't keep tight control over their intellectual property and are careless about product consistency is, well, laughable. But feel free to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want to believe.
Last edited by pbarnette; Jun 7, 2013 at 9:20 pm Reason: Order of magnitude error on company revenue
Jun 7, 2013, 9:06 pm
#1472
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I suspect it is not actually distilled under license, but by Diageo in Canada. My guess would be in an old Seagrams distillery. And I doubt it is distilled under license, but would not preclude the idea that it is contract manufactured.
Regardless, the idea that multinational corporations with revenues in the GBP 15m range don't keep tight control over their intellectual property and are careless about product consistency is, well, laughable. But feel free to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want to believe.
Regardless, the idea that multinational corporations with revenues in the GBP 15m range don't keep tight control over their intellectual property and are careless about product consistency is, well, laughable. But feel free to believe whatever conspiracy theory you want to believe.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:06 pm
#1473
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Have never been able to relate to vodka. According to this:
How Grey Goose is made
it is just extremely pure ethanol and very pure water.
Five stages of distillation... sounds like a senior year chemical engineering lab project run amok.
Guess I am just too entranced with the wondrous things that occur when you put a clear spirit into fire-toasted oak... or steep a clear spirit in mysterious berries and herbs.
===================
And, why is Grey Goose distilled in France? So self-absorbed Gen-X'ers can feel that they are drinking something sophisticated, coming all the way from France.
I actually have an unopened bottle of Grey Goose in my liquor closet. Won it at a holiday party years ago, in a fierce competition. Did so just to keep it out of the hands of a Gen-Xer.
Mea mixima culpa.
How Grey Goose is made
it is just extremely pure ethanol and very pure water.
Five stages of distillation... sounds like a senior year chemical engineering lab project run amok.
Guess I am just too entranced with the wondrous things that occur when you put a clear spirit into fire-toasted oak... or steep a clear spirit in mysterious berries and herbs.
===================
And, why is Grey Goose distilled in France? So self-absorbed Gen-X'ers can feel that they are drinking something sophisticated, coming all the way from France.
I actually have an unopened bottle of Grey Goose in my liquor closet. Won it at a holiday party years ago, in a fierce competition. Did so just to keep it out of the hands of a Gen-Xer.
Mea mixima culpa.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:06 pm
#1474
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Grey Goose is a triumph of marketing. It was invented out of thin air by Sidney Frank, who had made his initial fortune importing Jager and hiring pretty girls to serve it at bars. Voila, a frat party tradition was born from a digestif consumed by old German men.
For Grey Goose, Mr. Frank (a true gentleman that donated his fortune to Brown to ensure that no student had to leave college for financial reasons as he did) focused on what would sell. He paid more attention to the bottle design than the recipe and the pricing was set at around $30 simply to give it an aura of exclusivity.
As for why it is distilled in France? Mr. Frank thought (probably correctly) that France was associated with fine foodstuffs and slapping "Distilled and Bottled in France" would connote an air of sophistication and quality.
To circle back to Gordon's and your question about why an old, established brand could not achieve premium pricing, I would offer the experience above. Grey Goose was priced at $30 precisely to give it a premium position, and did so at a time when the market was ripe for premium spirits. Gordon's couldn't un-ring the bell and couldn't significantly change pricing from the trajectory that was already long-established.
For Grey Goose, Mr. Frank (a true gentleman that donated his fortune to Brown to ensure that no student had to leave college for financial reasons as he did) focused on what would sell. He paid more attention to the bottle design than the recipe and the pricing was set at around $30 simply to give it an aura of exclusivity.
As for why it is distilled in France? Mr. Frank thought (probably correctly) that France was associated with fine foodstuffs and slapping "Distilled and Bottled in France" would connote an air of sophistication and quality.
To circle back to Gordon's and your question about why an old, established brand could not achieve premium pricing, I would offer the experience above. Grey Goose was priced at $30 precisely to give it a premium position, and did so at a time when the market was ripe for premium spirits. Gordon's couldn't un-ring the bell and couldn't significantly change pricing from the trajectory that was already long-established.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:06 pm
#1475
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Jun 7, 2013, 9:16 pm
#1476
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Any time you want to engage in a blind taste test, though, book a flight to Boston. And bring the UK Gordon's, since I don't travel internationally much anymore.
What do you think gin is? Grain alcohol with juniper berries added in. It is quite a bit less magical than you would believe.
Honestly, even "boutique" gin makers use neutral grain spirits purchased from larger distilleries. Because, frankly, it doesn't matter. At 70%+ ABV, it is all about how you bring it back down.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:22 pm
#1478
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Grey Goose is a triumph of marketing. It was invented out of thin air by Sidney Frank, who had made his initial fortune importing Jager and hiring pretty girls to serve it at bars. Voila, a frat party tradition was born from a digestif consumed by old German men.
For Grey Goose, Mr. Frank (a true gentleman that donated his fortune to Brown to ensure that no student had to leave college for financial reasons as he did) focused on what would sell. He paid more attention to the bottle design than the recipe and the pricing was set at around $30 simply to give it an aura of exclusivity.
As for why it is distilled in France? Mr. Frank thought (probably correctly) that France was associated with fine foodstuffs and slapping "Distilled and Bottled in France" would connote an air of sophistication and quality.
To circle back to Gordon's and your question about why an old, established brand could not achieve premium pricing, I would offer the experience above. Grey Goose was priced at $30 precisely to give it a premium position, and did so at a time when the market was ripe for premium spirits. Gordon's couldn't un-ring the bell and couldn't significantly change pricing from the trajectory that was already long-established.
For Grey Goose, Mr. Frank (a true gentleman that donated his fortune to Brown to ensure that no student had to leave college for financial reasons as he did) focused on what would sell. He paid more attention to the bottle design than the recipe and the pricing was set at around $30 simply to give it an aura of exclusivity.
As for why it is distilled in France? Mr. Frank thought (probably correctly) that France was associated with fine foodstuffs and slapping "Distilled and Bottled in France" would connote an air of sophistication and quality.
To circle back to Gordon's and your question about why an old, established brand could not achieve premium pricing, I would offer the experience above. Grey Goose was priced at $30 precisely to give it a premium position, and did so at a time when the market was ripe for premium spirits. Gordon's couldn't un-ring the bell and couldn't significantly change pricing from the trajectory that was already long-established.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:25 pm
#1479
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I have my opinion (which seems to be founded upon quite a bit more knowledge and experience than yours) and I have the fact that the distillers say as much. Perhaps you think GBP 15bn companies routinely lie about readily verifiable facts, but I'm not the tin-foil head-gear type...
Any time you want to engage in a blind taste test, though, book a flight to Boston. And bring the UK Gordon's, since I don't travel internationally much anymore.
Any time you want to engage in a blind taste test, though, book a flight to Boston. And bring the UK Gordon's, since I don't travel internationally much anymore.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:28 pm
#1480
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And, frankly, at some point you are picking flies out of horses**t. Your average gin drinker can't tell the difference between Gordons and The Botanist, protestations from those who claim to be able to discern between Gordon's 37.5% and Gordon's 40%, notwithstanding.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:29 pm
#1481
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Perhaps the higher proof in continental Europe is required to compete with Tanqueray, which is also 47.3% ABV (94.6 proof).
Jun 7, 2013, 9:31 pm
#1482
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When the market for premium spirits appeared? There was a time when Gordon's was a premium spirit. Gordon's hasn't moved on the scale, there has just been significant product introductions above it.
And, frankly, at some point you are picking flies out of horses**t. Your average gin drinker can't tell the difference between Gordons and The Botanist, protestations from those who claim to be able to discern between Gordon's 37.5% and Gordon's 40%, notwithstanding.
And, frankly, at some point you are picking flies out of horses**t. Your average gin drinker can't tell the difference between Gordons and The Botanist, protestations from those who claim to be able to discern between Gordon's 37.5% and Gordon's 40%, notwithstanding.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:35 pm
#1483
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So you agree that UK Gordon's is the same as US Gordon's, save for alcohol content?
That is helpful, because then we can get down to whether people can discern differences between alcohol concentrations. I would recommend we break this down into a few tests:
1) "Neat" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5% at the same temperature without ice or added ingredients. I might be able to buy this.
2) "On ice" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5%, poured at the same temperature, with the same volume of ice, resting for the same time, and without other added ingredients. I suspect that the most a relatively accomplished taster could discern the difference, but that the time on ice would make that more difficult.
3) "Mixed" alcohol. Can you discern between, say, a G&T of 40% and 37.5%, same time, same temperature, same tonic, same volume of ice, same resting time, and without other added ingredients. I call BS for any but a master distiller.
Anything beyond #3 is pointless. You can't tell.
That is helpful, because then we can get down to whether people can discern differences between alcohol concentrations. I would recommend we break this down into a few tests:
1) "Neat" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5% at the same temperature without ice or added ingredients. I might be able to buy this.
2) "On ice" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5%, poured at the same temperature, with the same volume of ice, resting for the same time, and without other added ingredients. I suspect that the most a relatively accomplished taster could discern the difference, but that the time on ice would make that more difficult.
3) "Mixed" alcohol. Can you discern between, say, a G&T of 40% and 37.5%, same time, same temperature, same tonic, same volume of ice, same resting time, and without other added ingredients. I call BS for any but a master distiller.
Anything beyond #3 is pointless. You can't tell.
Jun 7, 2013, 9:42 pm
#1484
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So you agree that UK Gordon's is the same as US Gordon's, save for alcohol content?
That is helpful, because then we can get down to whether people can discern differences between alcohol concentrations. I would recommend we break this down into a few tests:
1) "Neat" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5% at the same temperature without ice or added ingredients. I might be able to buy this.
2) "On ice" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5%, poured at the same temperature, with the same volume of ice, resting for the same time, and without other added ingredients. I suspect that the most a relatively accomplished taster could discern the difference, but that the time on ice would make that more difficult.
3) "Mixed" alcohol. Can you discern between, say, a G&T of 40% and 37.5%, same time, same temperature, same tonic, same volume of ice, same resting time, and without other added ingredients. I call BS for any but a master distiller.
Anything beyond #3 is pointless. You can't tell.
That is helpful, because then we can get down to whether people can discern differences between alcohol concentrations. I would recommend we break this down into a few tests:
1) "Neat" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5% at the same temperature without ice or added ingredients. I might be able to buy this.
2) "On ice" alcohol. Can you discern between a glass of 40% and 37.5%, poured at the same temperature, with the same volume of ice, resting for the same time, and without other added ingredients. I suspect that the most a relatively accomplished taster could discern the difference, but that the time on ice would make that more difficult.
3) "Mixed" alcohol. Can you discern between, say, a G&T of 40% and 37.5%, same time, same temperature, same tonic, same volume of ice, same resting time, and without other added ingredients. I call BS for any but a master distiller.
Anything beyond #3 is pointless. You can't tell.
Some more info here
Jun 7, 2013, 9:47 pm
#1485
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What is fact is that distilling at different proofs does affect taste.
What also is fact is that making a spirit in another region, even with the same recipe, does not assure the same taste as water has certain local qualities that can affect both fermentation and taste...
Do you agree with this?