“Shena”: The Definitive “Shenanigans” Thread
Jun 10, 2018, 3:31 pm
#3091
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MIA
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I'm a bit in the dark WRT to DL policies on this, but how does an FA upgrade a nonrev? Are these nonrevs traveling in uniform; presumably on DL business? Or are they just nonrevs traveling on the company pass? Seems difficult to identify who is who without a uniform (yes, I know there are apps on the handheld). Presumably, if they can see nonrevs, the FAs can also see rev pax. That and it seems to me like DL would benefit from only one person, i.e. the GA controlling seat assignments as opposed to two, i.e. the GA and the FA.
At least on AA/UA, I'll see the GA come onboard and either hand the UG'd pax their new ticket or hand the tix over to the FA to hand them to the pax. Delegating this to FAs seems to be a recipe for disaster... or shena... as this thread amply indicates...
At least on AA/UA, I'll see the GA come onboard and either hand the UG'd pax their new ticket or hand the tix over to the FA to hand them to the pax. Delegating this to FAs seems to be a recipe for disaster... or shena... as this thread amply indicates...
Jun 10, 2018, 3:37 pm
#3092
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Of course FAs can see who are the nonrevs on a flight. They're supposed to get the last choice of meals and to switch seats when asked by a FA if a revenue passenger's seat (i.e., AVOD, recline, etc.) isn't working.
In principle, the pilot can invite nonrevs to move up but this tends to be delegated to the purser or lead FA. In a sense, it's not really an upgrade as nonrevs are entitled to the highest cabin that's available, assuming that they're not ineligible because for instance they're traveling with a small child or with a pet on an aircraft type where business class seats don't have space for pet carriers.
OTOH, only the GA is supposed to handle upgrades (of revenue passengers) as FAs (and pilots) aren't responsible for knowing FF program rules, so they have no way of knowing who would be next on the priority list.
In principle, the pilot can invite nonrevs to move up but this tends to be delegated to the purser or lead FA. In a sense, it's not really an upgrade as nonrevs are entitled to the highest cabin that's available, assuming that they're not ineligible because for instance they're traveling with a small child or with a pet on an aircraft type where business class seats don't have space for pet carriers.
OTOH, only the GA is supposed to handle upgrades (of revenue passengers) as FAs (and pilots) aren't responsible for knowing FF program rules, so they have no way of knowing who would be next on the priority list.
Jun 10, 2018, 3:47 pm
#3093
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MIA
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Posts: 1,798
Thanks, MSPeconomist! Your explanation makes sense, but the policy doesn't IMO. For instance, GA leaves one seat or more in F open, and then a nonrev or more than one nonrev can be "upgraded" by an FA even though there may be Medallions onboard who were also standing by for the UG.
Definitely prefer AA/UA's way: keep all seat assignments with the GA. Heck, even B6's system which allows pax to pay the FA via their handheld devised for an "upgrade" to Even More Seats makes sense.
Definitely prefer AA/UA's way: keep all seat assignments with the GA. Heck, even B6's system which allows pax to pay the FA via their handheld devised for an "upgrade" to Even More Seats makes sense.
Jun 10, 2018, 4:57 pm
#3094
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
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Yes, it does happen occasionally, and, the new-ish GA UG policy is supposed to give GAs more flexibility to do onboard UGs - - "time permitting". But in the real world, it doesn't seem to happen too often, based on reports here. There are even numerous reports of GAs LYING to Medallions when they ask the GAs if they will come aboard and do UGs - - they are told YES - - then they close the door with seats open, and, non-revs get the UG seats!
There was even a report just yesterday, where a pax was told that F was full. He/she boarded to find that 5A was open. He got off the plane to inquire about it from the GA, and was told to GET BACK on the plane or I'm taking you off this flight! He asked again about the F seat (He was #1 on the list). The GA said - - That's it! You're OFF THIS FLIGHT! The pax said - NO I'M NOT! and ran back on the plane! It's simply unbelievable!
Here it is. Just above: Post 3081:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/show...postcount=3081
Last edited by davetravels; Jun 10, 2018 at 5:07 pm
Jun 11, 2018, 1:33 pm
#3095
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: LAS
Programs: DL DM 1MM, Hertz PC, National EE, Bonvoy TE, GE, CLEAR
Posts: 159
That's just plain OUTRAGEOUS, Leo! Sorry to hear that! I'd be fuming!
I'd guess that some people here would say that this doesn't surprise them - - being Atlanta. I've really never had any major issues there.
I'd guess that some people here would say that this doesn't surprise them - - being Atlanta. I've really never had any major issues there.
It does show 5A as upgraded pax: Rob/M. I wonder if Rob/M scanned in - got the little UG ticket - boarded, but, took his / her original seat to sit with a companion.
Did'ja happen to check during the flight to see if anyone was sitting in 5A - and if so, byWHO WHOM?!?
Grammar corrected due to a friend texting me and teasing me about it.
Did'ja happen to check during the flight to see if anyone was sitting in 5A - and if so, by
Grammar corrected due to a friend texting me and teasing me about it.
Jun 11, 2018, 1:59 pm
#3097
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I don't want to get into a "how do you know it's a nonrev?" debate, but IMO an employee is less likely to leave trash behind compared to a (revenue) customer seated in FC.
Jun 11, 2018, 2:15 pm
#3098
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: MCO
Programs: DL PM, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 4,324
It’s 99% likely that it was a non-rev based on the circumstances the OP stated. With the flight being at F0 prior to boarding and the pax cleared into the F seat at the last min sounds like a non-rev to me. Typically if you see a pax clear into F towards the beginning of boarding, it’s probably a paid F pax who needed a seat assignment vs someone clearing at the last min is probably a non-rev getting a F pax no-show seat.
Jun 11, 2018, 3:23 pm
#3099
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: LAS
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Posts: 159
Got a call customer service and they are going to pull the manifest and get back to me. So hopefully we will have 100% answer soon.
Jun 11, 2018, 5:44 pm
#3100
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: LAS
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Got a call from customer service. They said that the agent self reported that they had to upgrade an employee due to time constraints of getting the flight out on time and there was not enough time to pull and upgrade customers. They also said they will be having a chat with him. 10,000 miles or $100 offered as compensation.
Jun 11, 2018, 6:30 pm
#3101
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Join Date: May 2005
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Got a call from customer service. They said that the agent self reported that they had to upgrade an employee due to time constraints of getting the flight out on time and there was not enough time to pull and upgrade customers. They also said they will be having a chat with him. 10,000 miles or $100 offered as compensation.
Could one of the people here "in-the-know", please tell us how long it physically takes to enter enough keystrokes to upgrade the top person on the UG list?
Surely, it would have been more productive to do this than alienate a DM, especially considering the length of the flight and tone that was used to scold him.
Jun 11, 2018, 6:33 pm
#3102
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: DL DM PM
Posts: 2,034
OK. So, there was ONE empty seat due to a no-show <seemingly>.
Could one of the people here "in-the-know", please tell us how long it physically takes to enter enough keystrokes to upgrade the top person on the UG list?
Surely, it would have been more productive to do this than alienate a DM, especially considering the length of the flight and tone that was used to scold him.
Could one of the people here "in-the-know", please tell us how long it physically takes to enter enough keystrokes to upgrade the top person on the UG list?
Surely, it would have been more productive to do this than alienate a DM, especially considering the length of the flight and tone that was used to scold him.
Jun 11, 2018, 6:33 pm
#3103
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Got a call from customer service. They said that the agent self reported that they had to upgrade an employee due to time constraints of getting the flight out on time and there was not enough time to pull and upgrade customers. They also said they will be having a chat with him. 10,000 miles or $100 offered as compensation.
This sounds to me like the self reporting GA was convinced that you were going to report the incident and wanted to get his/her side of the story on the record first.
New rules: If there's not time to upgrade a revenue customer, there's no time to clear nonrev standbys onto the flight either.
New rules: If there's not time to upgrade a revenue customer, there's no time to clear nonrev standbys onto the flight either.
Jun 11, 2018, 6:57 pm
#3105
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ATL
Programs: DL PM, 2+MM, AA Gold 1+MM, HH Diamond, MHG Silver,
Posts: 233
This sounds to me like the self reporting GA was convinced that you were going to report the incident and wanted to get his/her side of the story on the record first.
New rules: If there's not time to upgrade a revenue customer, there's no time to clear nonrev standbys onto the flight either.
New rules: If there's not time to upgrade a revenue customer, there's no time to clear nonrev standbys onto the flight either.
I wonder how many GA's monitor this thread to see if they see themselves?
"Uh-Oh - I worked that flight and pulled some Shena. I knew that guy would be a troublemaker - better call Atlanta and get ahead of this..."
I would imagine that the system would time stamp the events of when each upgrade was processed and how it related to actual departure.
Last edited by lov2fly; Jun 11, 2018 at 7:16 pm