Juanefny

+1!!!!

Stripe

So all the complaints in 16 pages of posts boil down to...

• Mixing up F and elite boarding will be bad
• Silvers are not included
• Drink/snack coupons are only available if you OLCI
• Free wi-fi would be better
• delta.com stinks
• SkyMiles award redemption stinks
• SkyMilesInsider should post more often

The first one is a legitimate concern, and the concerns have been heard loud and clear. I appreciate the advance notice on FT. Now it's time to wait and see how it plays out in the field. I will be boarding three times on Sunday (already upgraded on all three ) and if I see problems I will be sure to document and report them to DL. Others need to do the same thing. Specific reports of problems in the field will be what drives DL to stick with the new routine or not.

As for the rest of the complaints, all I can say is . Higher level elites should get more privileges, other airlines have provided mileage bonuses or free headset coupons if you OLCI so why shouldn't DL also provide an inducement, and I would love to hear the howls if an elite in Y gets free internet but the guy who got upgraded has to pay for it.

mike_plat

I think we all appreciate you posting here, but unfortunately I think you have missed my point. For example, the Zone 1 boarding looks immediately bad to scores of people on FT. That's because we spend a lot of time in airports. On a SFO-ATL flight, for example, there are literally dozens of people on the UG list. Now all of them are going to be cramming into your FC boarding. Is that the premium experience you're after? It should have looked bad to enough to anyone at DL that it shouldn't have made it out of the prototype shop. If you had floated a poll about the proposed Zone 1 boarding on FT before you productized it, you would have had your answer within 2 hours, it would have been free of charge, and you would have gotten a very accurate answer of how it will be received. Instead you'll need to do an autopsy to figure out what was the cause of death, all the while having egg on your faces.

I think this example speaks to all the criticism levied on DL management about being out of touch with your customers. Does anyone at DL try to use your own product in the same way your customers do? It's certainly not obvious to me. Just try it. No special perks. No corporate travel department to snag you that F seat. Try booking your own flight on that public website, try playing the "don't board or lose your place in the UG queue" game, and try controlling your impluse to switch to another carrier when you see 15 open BE seats on a flight 3 days from now and the award seat still costs 370K miles (as is the case now with LAX-SYD).

The fact that you posted it here first is, I assume, trying to capture a lot of the goodwill that COInsider does when making similar announcements. The main difference between DL and CO in this regard is that COInsider already knows how it will be received (for good or for bad) because, IMHO, CO is in better touch with the sentiments of its customers. I challenge DL to rise to the same level.

At the risk of turning this diatribe into a harangue, if you were to fix 2 problems with SM that so many on FT have complained about the most vehemently, then most of us would agree that you (finally) have the best-in-class loyalty program that was first promised 2 years ago this month: SWUs usable on international Q fares instead of M, and bring down those stratospheric redemption rates to the levels of your competitors. If these items had been done a month ago, I would not have bought the first 2 tickets on *A that I have bought in 3 years. I'll send you the receipts if you'd like to feed that information back into the corporate post mortem machine.

fgirard

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8330/4.5.0.175 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

I have one quick question to ask-- is Sky Priority going to be extended to AF Club 2000 members as well?

iamhereandthere

OK my turn to write. I've been reading all the comments and as other have echoed, I appreciate SMInsider's posts. My main concern is what seems to be the #1 concern of everyone here--having Y-seated DM/PM/GM (and E+ right?) board in zone 1.

DCA is my home airport. I savor the days when Congress is out of session or it's somewhere around a holiday—it was so peaceful flying out last week! Frequently I fly on Fri PM and return on Sun on Mon PM. These are heavy elite times especially if I’m flying through ATL. Many times there are 60+ elites (that’s how many are left on the upgrade list).

I have no idea how many of the 60+ elites are silver who would not qualify for zone 1 boarding...but if a majority of those people are GM and up...IMHO it truly devalues the F experience. I reading the comments I saw someone post “board F then zone 1”--that seems simple enough to me. An example of the current situation:

I boarded DL734 LAS-JFK this eve (I'm on it now, yay gogo!) and was doing my best not to be, ahem, a "gate louse." (Although there really wasn’t any place to sit when I got there, and there is no club, sigh.) There was one pre-boarding family (woman in wheelchair with 3 other travelers) and one of the 2 GAs took care of them efficiently, but that sent the low frequency signal to passengers in the gate area that that should go crowd the gate. LAS gate spaces are tight (D43 tonight).

So watching and listening to those around me I decided to worm my way up as they were about to begin boarding zone 1. I was stuck behind several people clearIy not in zone 1 (yes I really do know, I’m crafty) heard one person say "they board zone 4 first, right?" Had F on this flight been full (several empty seats tonight) there should have been about 30 or so people in zone 1 (F + row 19). Of the very many people crowding around I think less than 10 were actually in zone 1.

I guess the key point here is communication and how much worse would this be in the future (maybe not at LAS, but elsewhere). There were 2 GAs working the flight and there were no announcements prior to the pre-boarding of the wheelchair or the announcement of zone 1 boarding. I would have been happier if at least there was an attempt to control the coming chaos by saying please clear the area or something to that effect.

Aside from the concerns above I do look forward to the new Sky Priority benefits. I will confess that I am still happy I chose to "marry" Delta...it was actually the merger that made me focus my allegiance on Delta. I have so many connection options as most of my travel is to the far west...I really like the flexibility in scheduling. Pricing could be better…but I am still willing to pay a (very) small premium over B6, WN, FL, etc. It is a bit difficult to see a $100 difference for DCA-MCO though…I frequent that route for personal business…it’s a bummer when I can’t get T fares or when T equal is someone else’s ~K.

The biggest question I have (ignoring the proposed boarding process, que sera sera) is what happens when you have others traveling with you, whether in or out of your PNR, with regards to luggage and boarding. I have a DCA-SFO flight coming up with two travelers—me/PM, other traveler/FO. /I'll split the record ahead of the window so we can upgrade within our own windows.

This is a vacation so we’ll have checked bags. If I understand what I've read, I will have to check both bags under MY name so both are priority tagged (my assumption here is there is no upgrade for the FO traveler). It would be completely useless for my bag to come off first and then wait 20 minutes for the second bag.

That leads me to the second part of the question...what if I didn't split the PNR? Would both passengers (PM/FO) be able to have their bags tagged w/priority or is it still the same thing--put both bags under my name. Could we board together or would the FO have to wait for zone 2?

I'll be interested to see how things work in the coming weeks. No flying in the next two weeks…training and bussing instead (DC-NYC) so I don't fly until the end of the month. Enough time to work out some kinks I hope. I’m not expecting fellow FTers to answer the above, but I did want to share my comments/questions knowing that SMInsider will read them.

jfulcher

Actually it adds you to the airport upgrade list as soon as you check in.

I totally agree with this. There are going to be even more shenanigans now than before. Now you can't use the phrase "Has first BOARDED full" to CYA - unless you want to lose your overhead bin space. I think DL shoudl have taken care of it's GA problem first and foremost. They just gave them more oppurtunity for shenanigans.

They already did this once!!! When they introduced Breezeway boarding everyone started boarding with zone 1 immediatley. They ended up fixing this, and it took a little while. I guess DL enjoys wasting $ on mistakes it's already encountered before.

Winkdaddy

Wait...even though OLCI adds you to the airport upgrade list, if V inventory appears, you can still be automatically upgraded in that 24 hour period, right? At least thats my understanding.

SMI, can you confirm this? Its been the source of debate for a long time...

jfulcher

I've had experience that states this is NOT the case. At least it wasn't about 2 years ago.

My coworker and I were both PMs. We were both on K fares, but I booked about an hour before him. I checked in online at close to the 24 hour mark.

He did not check in online. I guess some V inventory opened up. He got upgraded - I didn't. Neither of us had the Reserve card at the time or anything else to put him ahead of me.

I have yet to have the experience of getting auto upgraded between OLCI & the 3 hour mark when the list offically goes into airport control.

So I NEVER check in before the 3 hour mark if I can help it. I have been upgraded when not checking in inside of the 24 hour window - heck I've been auto upgraded at the 4 hour mark a couple times before.

They can say that this isn't the case, but I don't trust them. They can't even do gate upgrades right!

eddielam

As a Silver, very disappointed... Means we don't matter... Now I have to work extra harder to get Gold :-)

FlyingHigh20

And thus, you have fallen into the trap that Delta wants. They want to push their Silvers to go to Gold now to get these "benefits" (granted, they were always there before - its just now they are a little more pronounced by claiming they are "new" privledges by repackaging them under a new product name).

Watchful

SMI...It would really be AWESOME to get some sort of definitive word on this issue - I'm sure you have seen it discussed on this board - but I'm not sure we have a clear understanding of DL's approach.

At the risk of rehashing old business...here is the deal:

ESPECIALLY in the age of "online checkin" there will be times when "first class has checked in full" but nevertheless a first class passenger will not show - not to mention the missed connecting passengers in hubs.

For many FlyerTalkers - our experience seems to be that if I am on the wait list for an upgrade (even if first class has checked in full) - it is better to stay in the gate area until the last minute - so that my name remains on the potential upgrade list (and in fact - moves up the list as others on the list go ahead and board).

Other airlines (perhaps CO and apparently on the old NW) would maintain the original upgrade list - so in that case, it made more sense to go ahead and board in coach, and rely upon the gate agent to bring a new boarding pass if the upgrade did go through.

Obviously - this does connect to the SkyPriority boarding experience - because it will affect how the SkyPriority passenger wishes to take advantage of boarding zones.

It would nice to receive a clear message as to how DL will be handling this (as a normal protocol).

Thanks for any help you can give with this!

bwhite

Unfortunately if you have your allergy added to the PNR ahead of time you will be prevented from OLCI (checking in on-line) since it is a "medical condition". In the case of SP benefits, you will lose you free drink coupon since you can't OLCI.

The benefit of adding your allergy to the PNR is that it will be on the manifest for the flight and the FAs will be aware of your allergy. They will typically not serve peanuts within three rows and if you have a reaction in flight they will know what is happening.

Another disadvantage to adding it to the PNR it that you may be moved out of first 3 rows of Y (like rows 10-12 on the MD88 for example) so that FC can be served peanuts per the 3 row rule above. This means that you are ineligible for many of the premium elite Y seats.

Losing the free drink because you have a nut allergy just doesn't seem fair. However it is better to have the allergy on the record so if you turn blue or purple they will know why. Its as simple as calling and having them note you have a nut allergy every time you book a flight.

avflyer

+1^ Even tempered and accurate.

SMI, while some of the program tweaks you are working on toward making SM Best in Class are seen as positives (other than the new zone 1 thing), the two issues Mike mentions will always draw scorn.

Delta is now an even bigger "international" airline than ever before and the BiC SM program must apply to international travel too. Regardless of other efforts, BiC is hard to achieve when an I fare is less than an M fare and when award redemption rates are equally out of hand.

StayingHomeIsBetter

In the spirit of full and fair disclosure, I am not aware of any situation where an employee ended up in a FC seat that I should have had. But, I have seen FC seats go empty when I was stuck in coach in spite of having been on the UG list.

Clearing up this issue, and instituting a transparent, fairly implemented policy would defuse a significant portion of the rancor and mistrust with the way battlefield upgrades are discussed in this forum.

Leaving PAX on the UG list after they board, and retrieving them from coach when there are unfilled FC seats, can be done. NW (RIP) and other airlines have proven this.

However, DL management appears unwilling to address the issue. I must assume that this is due in part to the fact that GAs are running around at the last minute trying to deal with gate checked baggage (which has increased as a consequence of DL's ever increasing baggage fees). And, I suspect that there is a lot of pressure to get the door closed so that the airline can claim an on-time departure... whether that actually occurs or not.

Unfortunately, the hubbub that will result from the "board half the plane in zone 1" will make it even less likely that we ever see a common sense solution to ensuring that elites get the (available) FC seats they earned through their loyalty to the airline.

While the boarding fiasco unfolds, I will just redouble my efforts to avoid ATL and other elite-heavy airports. By staying a Plat and avoiding ATL, I have virtually avoided the anxiety of the battlefield UG.

In fact, I continue to be amazed at the number of flights I take where the FC cabin is not full.

It leaves me wondering, which explanation would DL management prefer I assume:

1) The UG system is not working properly, and there are deserving elites left in the back of the plane, or

2) Their product cannot attract enough business to create the elites necessary to fill a FC section.

BobRoss

Unless it's a ploy to give the upgrades to the FOs still at the gate, those typically not receiving upgrades.. An FO enhancement!