SkyMilesInsider update: Sky Priority is HERE…
Apr 13, 2010, 6:28 pm
#301
Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles
Posts: 351
SkyMilesInsider
Apr 13, 2010, 6:29 pm
#302
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 953
Thanks for the reply. Hope you're keeping your head on straight -- people are resistant to change, and are most vocal right away. Glad to hear DL is looking at the Zone 1 issue and will see if it turns into a problem. Take care and see ya at the Mini-DO!
Apr 13, 2010, 6:52 pm
#303
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ATL
Programs: DL - PM (Sky Priority);HH - Gold; Marriott - Silver; National - Executive; DL Reserve AMEX
Posts: 5,234
Try getting that from WN... oh wait....
And as an FO, you'll STILL get priority boarding (Zone 2)... there is literally NOTHING devalued here. FOs are already in the last Elite group to board currently, so there is no change.
Also, nothing has changed with regards to the upgrade priority. If you were getting them before, you'll still get them. If you weren't, you probably won't still. No reason to leave DL all of a sudden.
With regards to the elite security lines, etc., I'd prefer to "wait and see" to see how individual airports handle this. Since the ticket will still say "Elite" on the top of it (if you are a Silver), I imagine most security personnel will still let you use the "elite" lines, except maybe at ATL where they have NEVER allowed FOs. Once again, NOTHING CHANGED.
So, please, explain further how the FO status has been devalued...
Apr 13, 2010, 7:16 pm
#304
Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles
Posts: 351
Our SkyMiles Silver Medallion or SkyTeam Elite members will continue to enjoy all the benefits they’re earned – as found on delta.com - and will experience no changes once Sky Priority is available to qualifying customers.
Silver Medallion members are eligible for Sky Priority services when upgraded or when a BusinessElite, First or Business Class ticket is purchased.
Silver Medallion members are eligible for Sky Priority services when upgraded or when a BusinessElite, First or Business Class ticket is purchased.
I'm not usually one to call out SMI, especially when he/she is actually participating in a thread, but:
This was SMI's post from the Sky Priority speculation thread, in response to someone's concerns about Silvers losing pre-boarding as a result of this change (hence the FO insert).
I'm an FO, former NW Gold Elite and from the initial reading of the e-mail and website, it sure looks like I'm losing benefits, especially when it comes to check-in, security and other "lines." Should I take this to mean that we FOs are, in fact, losing benefits, or was the post quoted above just a big typo?
This was SMI's post from the Sky Priority speculation thread, in response to someone's concerns about Silvers losing pre-boarding as a result of this change (hence the FO insert).
I'm an FO, former NW Gold Elite and from the initial reading of the e-mail and website, it sure looks like I'm losing benefits, especially when it comes to check-in, security and other "lines." Should I take this to mean that we FOs are, in fact, losing benefits, or was the post quoted above just a big typo?
A few other updates for you on other topics:
Boarding process in general - while we are moving forward with the changes as announced, we absolutely are going to continue monitoring this aspect of the product introduction very closely for your feedback, observations by our employees and many other data points.
Drink/snack coupons - so far it appears that you all seem to like this part, but we wanted to add some additional information. These coupons will be available on RJ routes that do not have F cabin service. (The question was posted earlier, but I couldn't find it.) ...and we know you want wi-fi coupons. While we wanted to have this for the launch, there are still some things we are trying to solve for before we can include it.
For the next several days, I will continue to monitor (lightly) but know that there are also significant employee communications that need attention, too. This is as much an employee education campaign as it is a customer product launch so please accept my apologies in advance if I'm not able to get back to post on items until evening hours.
SkyMilesInsider
Apr 13, 2010, 7:20 pm
#305
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: RDU, Delta GM/1MM, Hilton Diamond (for now), Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 3,443
DL FO here, have been GM and PM in the past but not in the last couple of years, never posted before because I was always very satisfied with DL's product and services even on the lowly Silver level. However, as someone whose travel patterns make GM unlikely for the next few years anyway, I am wondering if there are really any FO benefits left that are worth having?
Elite Check-in Access: Gone.
Elite Security Access: Was already gone for the most part.
Early boarding: Devalued to the point of near worthlessness at many hub airports and on busy metal routes where half the plane will be GM or higher.
Priority Seating: Appears that FO will not have "early access" whatever that means, it is likely that whenever we do get access (24 hours before the flight?) all of the exit row and bulkhead seats will be long gone. As a 6'4" male who really could use that extra legroom, that's a devastating loss.
Upgrades: Already very unlikely except on the most obscure routes. Probably primed to be taken away entirely soon.
Priority baggage service: Never had it.
Are there other FO benefits that survived the Sky Priority regime change that I am missing?
Seems to me that DL is basically telling their FOs who won't be flying enough to make GM to take a hike, they are no longer wanted as customers.
Elite Check-in Access: Gone.
Elite Security Access: Was already gone for the most part.
Early boarding: Devalued to the point of near worthlessness at many hub airports and on busy metal routes where half the plane will be GM or higher.
Priority Seating: Appears that FO will not have "early access" whatever that means, it is likely that whenever we do get access (24 hours before the flight?) all of the exit row and bulkhead seats will be long gone. As a 6'4" male who really could use that extra legroom, that's a devastating loss.
Upgrades: Already very unlikely except on the most obscure routes. Probably primed to be taken away entirely soon.
Priority baggage service: Never had it.
Are there other FO benefits that survived the Sky Priority regime change that I am missing?
Seems to me that DL is basically telling their FOs who won't be flying enough to make GM to take a hike, they are no longer wanted as customers.
a) pick better seats - apparently she can't any more
b) board and get her carry on somewhere near her seat - guess that won't happen any more.
c) use the medallion check-in line
I already knew the upgrades would be rare, and that's fine, but what you guys did to FO just is not right. What are you going to do for those of us that gifted FO to our spouses or friends for these reasons and you've now changed them.
I may be way off base here, but according to your last post above mine you said they'll still have a check in line and get somewhat early boarding, but can you clarify on when they'll be able to pick the preferred seats? Are they not going to be able to pick them at or after booking?
Last edited by jfulcher; Apr 13, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Apr 13, 2010, 7:25 pm
#306
Join Date: May 1999
Location: CVG
Programs: DL DM 4MM, Lifetime Marriott Plat Elite, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,429
Boarding process in general - while we are moving forward with the changes as announced, we absolutely are going to continue monitoring this aspect of the product introduction very closely for your feedback, observations by our employees and many other data points.
Drink/snack coupons
Drink/snack coupons
2. Drink Coupons: a BIG +1!!
Can I suggest that you introduce a ZONE ZERO (0)? This "zone" is for FC (or BE) ONLY! Then offer zone ONE for every other person that you deem appropriate.
Frankly, I dread zone one boarding on April 15th!!
Apr 13, 2010, 7:28 pm
#307
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The best state in the USA - Florida!
Programs: Marriott Titanium/LT Plat, AS MVP75K, AA PlatPro, UA Premier, Disney AP
Posts: 14,497
Drink/snack coupons - so far it appears that you all seem to like this part, but we wanted to add some additional information. These coupons will be available on RJ routes that do not have F cabin service. (The question was posted earlier, but I couldn't find it.) ...and we know you want wi-fi coupons. While we wanted to have this for the launch, there are still some things we are trying to solve for before we can include it.
Apr 13, 2010, 7:30 pm
#308
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: RDU, Delta GM/1MM, Hilton Diamond (for now), Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 3,443
It was already a problem when they did the initial breezeway implementation. How hard is it not to repeat your same mistakes? It wasn't that long ago! It took months to fix the breezeway boarding.
Apr 13, 2010, 7:37 pm
#309
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,977
Drink/snack coupons - so far it appears that you all seem to like this part, but we wanted to add some additional information. These coupons will be available on RJ routes that do not have F cabin service. (The question was posted earlier, but I couldn't find it.) ...and we know you want wi-fi coupons. While we wanted to have this for the launch, there are still some things we are trying to solve for before we can include it.
How about this situation: I used my miles to get a non-status relative a domestic F award, but one segment is an RJ with no first class. Will she get a drink coupon at OLCI? I would be very surprised if the answer was Yes but it's a good example of all the scenarios the programmers must account for.
Apr 13, 2010, 7:44 pm
#310
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: DL Diamond Medallion, AA Executive Platinum, Hilton HHonors Gold VIP
Posts: 564
Nice job SMI. I appreciate your posting here. I know the limitations of what you can say as a spokesperson for DL, but to respond to how you justified that Silver's "won't lose anything"... all you really said is that Silver's will board on Zone 2... as I predicted. You did not address everything else silver's would lose, like having the Priority Check-In line being renamed "SkyPriority Check-In" which Silvers are not eligible for, or even the ability to select exit rows upon booking. You cannot dispute that Silvers will lose a number of current benefits to say the least. There is no way that Silver's will have their own exclusive "Priority Check-In" at the airport since SkyPriority will now have a separate one. As much as DL tries to hide this, it IS true that Silver's will be degraded to General Members because as we know, the millions of Silvers out there are on a uphill battle for upgrades (a rarity on elite heavy DL SkyMiles). So that leaves the 25% bonus the only realistic benefit of Silver status and boarding in Zone 2 (after 1/4 to 1/2 the plane has boarded), which my opinion really isn't a great benefit. Having this SkyPriority for "everyone BUT...." doesn't really do anything for Golds and up since nothing was added to the current benefits other than Zone 1 boarding. It more so disses Silvers. Sort of like saying, "everyone is invited but one person, to a party that is held regularly".. just my 2 cents.
On a positive note, I am glad most elites will now board with FC because this will make elites feel better, and I am also glad that customer support will be extended 24/7 as it should be, since DL is a worldwide carrier, or at least it markets itself to be one.
On a positive note, I am glad most elites will now board with FC because this will make elites feel better, and I am also glad that customer support will be extended 24/7 as it should be, since DL is a worldwide carrier, or at least it markets itself to be one.
Apr 13, 2010, 7:47 pm
#311
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Delta, Hyatt-Plat, Priority Club-Plat, Hilton-Gold
Posts: 1,271
If this is the case - SMI Can I get my "Choice" back? The choice I made by changing the rules not even 2 months after I made said choice! I gifted my wife FO so the few times she travels for work she could:
a) pick better seats - apparently she can't any more
b) board and get her carry on somewhere near her seat - guess that won't happen any more.
c) use the medallion check-in line
I already knew the upgrades would be rare, and that's fine, but what you guys did to FO just is not right. What are you going to do for those of us that gifted FO to our spouses or friends for these reasons and you've now changed them.
I may be way off base here, but according to your last post above mine you said they'll still have a check in line and get somewhat early boarding, but can you clarify on when they'll be able to pick the preferred seats? Are they not going to be able to pick them at or after booking?
a) pick better seats - apparently she can't any more
b) board and get her carry on somewhere near her seat - guess that won't happen any more.
c) use the medallion check-in line
I already knew the upgrades would be rare, and that's fine, but what you guys did to FO just is not right. What are you going to do for those of us that gifted FO to our spouses or friends for these reasons and you've now changed them.
I may be way off base here, but according to your last post above mine you said they'll still have a check in line and get somewhat early boarding, but can you clarify on when they'll be able to pick the preferred seats? Are they not going to be able to pick them at or after booking?
Silvers aren't losing benefits, its just that others are getting your current benefits + additional new benefits. In other words...Silvers aren't losing anything, they are just not gaining anything!
If anything, you now have your entire separate zone to board in...which is the same zone as before.
Apr 13, 2010, 7:51 pm
#312
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: DL Diamond Medallion, AA Executive Platinum, Hilton HHonors Gold VIP
Posts: 564
SMI has said many things, and so has Jeff Robertson. (see one of the stickies regarding one of JR's promises.. I'll leave it at that).
SMI is doing a good job of posting. I realize this is a scary place for a DL employee to post when the airline is so unpopular. But let's get real, I don't care what DL says, the evidence points out the obvious. OF COURSE Silver's will lose benefits.
Here's why (taken from post #292 which SMI did not address other than confirming that Zone 2 will remain exclusively for Silvers)
I'd like to agree with you, as it is hard to believe that a company can really be this sly, but we also need to use common sense:
Are you suggesting there will now be 3 check in sections at the airport? 1 for SkyPriority (FC, golds and up), 1 for Priority Check in (Silvers only), and the other section for regular passengers? I doubt it.
Are you suggesting that Silvers will exclusively have Zone 2 to themselves? Zone 1 is currently for FC and row 16 on certain routes/planes, so now Golds and up will have zone 1 as well... which leaves Zone 2 exclusively for Silver?
And let's not forget the promise of providing exit rows "earlier" to golds and up.. that just means that Silver's wont be able to select them as soon as they book their tickets/ There are a few exit rows that will 'always' be reserved 2 hours prior to boarding, and i doubt these exit rows are the ones being referred to, in that case, despite the promise of SMI, the evidence points out otherwise
As far as free beverage/snack... peanuts/cookies is what we currently get.. so I guess now we can expect 2 peanut bags? lol Knowing Delta this well, this 'SkyPriority marketing scheme/propaganda' is very consistent with their past 'cost-cutting accomplishments' and a very 'excellent' way of marketing improvements as a disguise to pretty much begin elite benefits from Gold Medallion up. Might as well just rename Gold Elite to Silver Elite, Plat to Gold and Diamond to Plat... since we all know Silvers have an uphill battle getting upgraded, so is the only benefit the 25% bonus miles? lol (which should be a benefit for everybody including general members given the outrageous award ticket prices)
Are you suggesting there will now be 3 check in sections at the airport? 1 for SkyPriority (FC, golds and up), 1 for Priority Check in (Silvers only), and the other section for regular passengers? I doubt it.
Are you suggesting that Silvers will exclusively have Zone 2 to themselves? Zone 1 is currently for FC and row 16 on certain routes/planes, so now Golds and up will have zone 1 as well... which leaves Zone 2 exclusively for Silver?
And let's not forget the promise of providing exit rows "earlier" to golds and up.. that just means that Silver's wont be able to select them as soon as they book their tickets/ There are a few exit rows that will 'always' be reserved 2 hours prior to boarding, and i doubt these exit rows are the ones being referred to, in that case, despite the promise of SMI, the evidence points out otherwise
As far as free beverage/snack... peanuts/cookies is what we currently get.. so I guess now we can expect 2 peanut bags? lol Knowing Delta this well, this 'SkyPriority marketing scheme/propaganda' is very consistent with their past 'cost-cutting accomplishments' and a very 'excellent' way of marketing improvements as a disguise to pretty much begin elite benefits from Gold Medallion up. Might as well just rename Gold Elite to Silver Elite, Plat to Gold and Diamond to Plat... since we all know Silvers have an uphill battle getting upgraded, so is the only benefit the 25% bonus miles? lol (which should be a benefit for everybody including general members given the outrageous award ticket prices)
Apr 13, 2010, 7:59 pm
#313
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 45° North
Programs: DL DM MM, HH Diamond
Posts: 10,196
Apr 13, 2010, 8:26 pm
#314
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM
Posts: 768
So what is Silvers are alone in zone 2? Is the suggestion that elites and first class pax are going to fill the overheads completely before any general member pax board? Honestly, if zone 1 boarding is the absolute mess I expect, I'll probably hold back and wait for Zone 2 in any event.
Yes, loss of priority check-in/security is a diminuation, but other than that I don't really see the sky falling. Selecting priority seats at time of booking? I don't know about you, but I'm a PM now and I've found the pickings rather slim of late when I've booked tickets. I read this as DL will open up seats for skypriority that are presently blocked to everyone (and I'm hoping that means row 5 on the airbii). The loss of benefits for FOs in that regard happened months ago.
Silver still gets you:
Waived checked bag fees, on the plane before general members, 25% more RDMs than a general member & upgraded at a similar rate to what you were before skypriority (in which case you get all of the skypriority benefits in any event). Asserting that silver is degrading into *general member plus* just seems a bit reactionary.
Yes, loss of priority check-in/security is a diminuation, but other than that I don't really see the sky falling. Selecting priority seats at time of booking? I don't know about you, but I'm a PM now and I've found the pickings rather slim of late when I've booked tickets. I read this as DL will open up seats for skypriority that are presently blocked to everyone (and I'm hoping that means row 5 on the airbii). The loss of benefits for FOs in that regard happened months ago.
Silver still gets you:
Waived checked bag fees, on the plane before general members, 25% more RDMs than a general member & upgraded at a similar rate to what you were before skypriority (in which case you get all of the skypriority benefits in any event). Asserting that silver is degrading into *general member plus* just seems a bit reactionary.
Apr 13, 2010, 8:31 pm
#315
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York City
Programs: DL Gold, Marriott Platinum, Starwood Platinum, Avis First
Posts: 20
It seems to me that rollover MQM's probably have created too many FO's. (To make silver, one now only needs to fly 25,000 miles in two years instead of one.) So to alleviate overcrowding in the Breezeway lane, Delta rolls out this new program separating out the FO's from other elite members. Just my theory...