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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old Jan 16, 2017, 11:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old Jan 15, 2017, 9:58 pm
  #166  
 
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
It's the exact same in Canada...
This may have been true a few years ago, but not anymore. VISA requires ODA on all contactless cards in Canada (and everywhere except the US) since Oct 2015. Canadian VISA cards in Apple Pay also support it, and work on TfL. Same with recently issued MasterCards in the past couple of years.
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 10:10 pm
  #167  
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
It might not be Quick Chip but it might just be really fast chip. Did the UI change at all or does it look all the same? My local stores have had iSC250s for a while, but still was swipe only (haven't checked recently, I need to go buy motor oil anyways, so I will check to see if my local ones have EMV). Also it looks like yours uses regular receipt paper now instead of that dot matrix stuff!
The approved screen looked customized for O'Reilly (also saying "remove card") but the authorizing screen appeared to be something provided by the POS vendor. I'd have imagined the transaction would have been cancelled as soon as I removed the card during the latter screen if Quick Chip wasn't in play.

Originally Posted by AllieKat
Amex has contactless cards in the US tho, and mandates those support ODA. The mobile wallet situation is due to the horrendous US contactless compatibility, and is more domestic-focused.

I get it, hesitantly I get it. I think it's best to have a physical contactless Amex AND a Mastercard for travel. Visa is useless, ofc. Except the Schwab Visa because they pay ATM fees.
Realistically, most people are likely using a mobile wallet with their AmEx cards instead of requesting the physical version as the latter option isn't well known. In fact, I'm still expecting physical contactless cards in general to be fairly uncommon in the US at least for the short to medium term because the "standard" contactless option is effectively mobile wallets.
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 11:48 pm
  #168  
 
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Originally Posted by LordHamster
I ordered it on Jan 3rd, got a call same day saying it was approved. On the 10th I got my PIN in the mail, card didn't show till yesterday (Jan14).

To activate the chip and pin I did my first transaction at Target. I was not asked to sign or enter a pin for the $38 transaction but I did insert the card into their reader. Second transaction was today at CVS for $2.39 and I was asked for my PIN, so I'm quite happy.

Activating Android pay was a bit akward on it, I had to add the card like my others, but then Android pay asked me to call the bank to complete the Android pay activation. 3 min after my call, the card was finally added to my Android pay wallet. I have not yet added it to apple pay, so I don't know if that will work right away or require a second call.
Thanks! We joined and got approved on the 6th, haven't received the PIN yet. Your experience with Android Pay is exactly the same as what I had with my SDFCU Visa, so maybe it's common for credit unions?
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 8:19 am
  #169  
 
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Originally Posted by LordHamster
Officially yes... before attempting to sign up, I joined the Financial Fitness Association for $8. However, when I went to first Tech to actually sign up, one of the step asked me for how I was eligible for the Credit union. It gave me two choices....Being related to an existing member, or join the Computer Science (or some such) museum. For expediency sake, I chose the museum option figuring someone may call me to verify later. Nobody ever called to verify, they just signed me up, so who knows. Perhaps they saw my eligibility behind the scenes. Worst case, the Computer museum membership is like $15, which is also worth it in time saved.

Either way it went quick. What took forever was waiting for the card to actually be delivered.
I did a little online research, they haven't got very good customer service reviews. Think I'll stay away for now. Keep us up to date on your experience.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 9:14 am
  #170  
 
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Originally Posted by cjw2001
I did a little online research, they haven't got very good customer service reviews. Think I'll stay away for now. Keep us up to date on your experience.
If you really believe it is important to have a pin preferred card, I 'swould presume it is just for just in case. It certainly would be my first choice for my credit card purchases; of course this decision is based on other things such as ftf's, rewards and the like. I know I have the card and use it every so often to keep, it active but it is not my primary card. When I'm off to Europe I take it but only use it sometimes when I don't want to go through the stupidity at self service. For that reason, I don't really worry about customer service.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:41 am
  #171  
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Originally Posted by cjw2001
I did a little online research, they haven't got very good customer service reviews. Think I'll stay away for now. Keep us up to date on your experience.
Elaborate? The CS experience according to others in this thread seemed okay from what I remember.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 12:11 pm
  #172  
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I've found their customer service fine the one time I called them about activating my online account (app). The staff in their branches are incredibly nice. Spent just over $2K and now waiting on the 10K bonus (about $100).
For both them and the United Nations I had to add the card to my phone via a telephone call, unlike the SMS messages from commercial banks. I had wanted my UN card in Samsung Pay, but it ended up in Android Pay instead, not worth another call about it.
I used the FirstTech card four times in Dubai with mixed results: at a restaurant and a bookstore it went through as a PIN card; buying a transit card from a clerk resulted in a signature slip, as did checking out of my hotel (I assume those merchants were set up that way). It did require a signature at Best Buy vis Samsung Pay for an $800 computer, which was explained earlier in this thread.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 1:15 pm
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger
I've found their customer service fine the one time I called them about activating my online account (app). The staff in their branches are incredibly nice. Spent just over $2K and now waiting on the 10K bonus (about $100).
For both them and the United Nations I had to add the card to my phone via a telephone call, unlike the SMS messages from commercial banks. I had wanted my UN card in Samsung Pay, but it ended up in Android Pay instead, not worth another call about it.
I used the FirstTech card four times in Dubai with mixed results: at a restaurant and a bookstore it went through as a PIN card; buying a transit card from a clerk resulted in a signature slip, as did checking out of my hotel (I assume those merchants were set up that way). It did require a signature at Best Buy vis Samsung Pay for an $800 computer, which was explained earlier in this thread.
Kinda curious to find out whether cards issued to Dubai residents are PIN preferring or not. Sounds like PIN isn't mandatory at the terminal level.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 1:45 pm
  #174  
 
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Hey new thread.

Anyways I am going to hit up O'Rielly and see if there is EMV enabled at my local store.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 2:36 pm
  #175  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Kinda curious to find out whether cards issued to Dubai residents are PIN preferring or not. Sounds like PIN isn't mandatory at the terminal level.
I believe local cards are PIN preferring. Interestingly at the hotel, the authorization for incidentals requires a PIN, but I could see them preferring an actual signature on file for large final amounts. The transit card was a bit awkward, but the clerk didn't seem fazed at all by the signature having a ready pen so it may be that they prefer it that way.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 3:20 pm
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger
I believe local cards are PIN preferring. Interestingly at the hotel, the authorization for incidentals requires a PIN, but I could see them preferring an actual signature on file for large final amounts. The transit card was a bit awkward, but the clerk didn't seem fazed at all by the signature having a ready pen so it may be that they prefer it that way.
Could also be that Dubai used to be chip and signature and the transit card store hasn't purchased net terminals.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 3:41 pm
  #177  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Could also be that Dubai used to be chip and signature and the transit card store hasn't purchased new terminals.
I assume you meant new, not net. Anyway, shouldn't their merchant services provider be able to update the terminal's CVM capabilities remotely if it's relatively new (like a Vx 820)?
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 3:49 pm
  #178  
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Originally Posted by emmanuel_t
I assume you meant new, not net. Anyway, shouldn't their merchant services provider be able to update the terminal's CVM capabilities remotely if it's relatively new (like a Vx 820)?
Dubai likely uses online PIN as it's a newer chip market. Supporting online PIN may require sending the terminal back for encryption key loading, which could cost merchants money to do so if they're not leasing the terminals or on some service plan. I suppose offline PIN could be supported through a software update if they wanted though.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 5:27 pm
  #179  
 
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JR Cigar have EMV with iSC250s. Not sure about contactless, but it's not like I would know. I saw someone paying through the window whilst walking by the shop downtown.
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Old Jan 16, 2017, 6:56 pm
  #180  
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Originally Posted by emmanuel_t
JR Cigar have EMV with iSC250s. Not sure about contactless, but it's not like I would know. I saw someone paying through the window whilst walking by the shop downtown.
Is it this place? https://www.jrcigars.com/stores
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