Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 24, 2018, 5:52 am
#3856
Join Date: Sep 2014
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I was only able to use Contactless at one location and it had no EMV information, but it did print "Contactless" among the card information on the bottom of the receipt...
Oh, there was a location where I used EMV that did not ask for the zip code...
All of these were in New Mexico. Same POS equipment NCR/Radiant with MX915s, and all unbranded fuel.
Oh, there was a location where I used EMV that did not ask for the zip code...
All of these were in New Mexico. Same POS equipment NCR/Radiant with MX915s, and all unbranded fuel.
Also is anyone going to visit Barnes And Noble today to see if nfc is actually enabled?
Apr 24, 2018, 9:17 am
#3857
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Apr 24, 2018, 10:12 am
#3858
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Cardless? Really? How about "contactless" so people can use their contactless cards there in the future and not get confused?
Apr 24, 2018, 10:41 am
#3859
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Apr 24, 2018, 10:42 am
#3860
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Apr 24, 2018, 10:53 am
#3861
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Wells Fargo and BofA labels it “Contactless Reader” so there’s that. Chase oh Chase odd man out. At least it uses the international contactless symbol. Some Heartland terminals show an iPhone with waves instead, thankfully the regular contactless logo shows up on the screen itself.
Apr 24, 2018, 11:59 am
#3862
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Wells Fargo and BofA labels it “Contactless Reader” so there’s that. Chase oh Chase odd man out. At least it uses the international contactless symbol. Some Heartland terminals show an iPhone with waves instead, thankfully the regular contactless logo shows up on the screen itself.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some international-focused cards eventually have it as an opt-in feature if our cards start having acceptance issues again.
Apr 24, 2018, 12:01 pm
#3863
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In fairness, I don't see those three (or really anyone other than the ones we already know about) issuing contactless cards any time soon. They likely see the technology as "failed" considering their previous attempt which combined with the current low use of Apple Pay et al make it difficult to justify spending the extra money per card. Because of that, I'm not bothered that WF for instance only mentions mobile payment on their ATMs or that Chase just says "cardless" as posted above.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some international-focused cards eventually have it as an opt-in feature if our cards start having acceptance issues again.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some international-focused cards eventually have it as an opt-in feature if our cards start having acceptance issues again.
Apr 24, 2018, 12:48 pm
#3864
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On the other hand, Apple likely had to release Apple Pay when they did. Otherwise, US-specific terminal models without contactless probably would have become relatively common (even if it only saved a few dollars on hardware costs) and thus have made the transition that much harder.
Apr 24, 2018, 1:51 pm
#3865
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EMV contactless too. ^ Also the first I've seen the Pax SP30, which seems to take forever to initialize.
Apr 24, 2018, 10:15 pm
#3866
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I was at a mom and pop chain here in Arizona, called Long Wong's. I saw Apple Pay on the map, and they had one small Apple Pay sticker on their front door. They had two simple crappy cash registers, and two cashier facing First Data FD-130s. I held up my phone and the cashier went through the motions ,and turned the terminal towards me. I was jumping up and down for joy that a business actually trained their cashiers. Went back up for 2 $2.50 pizzas (7" personal) and had a different cashier, and she knew how to do it too!
I am still mad that FD terminals require a PIN to use Apple Pay, and if you hit cancel, it just cancels the entire transaction! That is why they turn the terminal towards you otherwise, I am sure they would just have you reach over with your phone. (terminal placement was well within reach of customer and cashier, not blocked by anything stupid, etc)
Sadly they still insert the chip on contactless cards,
. The downside of cashier facing terminals. But at least a phone works just fine.
THEY DID have a $2.50 card minimum. The cheapest item on their menu was $2.50, so I don't even understand the point of the minimum. That being said, props to this one for doing it right even though they don't have customer facing equipment.
I am still mad that FD terminals require a PIN to use Apple Pay, and if you hit cancel, it just cancels the entire transaction! That is why they turn the terminal towards you otherwise, I am sure they would just have you reach over with your phone. (terminal placement was well within reach of customer and cashier, not blocked by anything stupid, etc)
Sadly they still insert the chip on contactless cards,
. The downside of cashier facing terminals. But at least a phone works just fine.THEY DID have a $2.50 card minimum. The cheapest item on their menu was $2.50, so I don't even understand the point of the minimum. That being said, props to this one for doing it right even though they don't have customer facing equipment.
Apr 24, 2018, 11:27 pm
#3867
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I am still mad that FD terminals require a PIN to use Apple Pay, and if you hit cancel, it just cancels the entire transaction! That is why they turn the terminal towards you otherwise, I am sure they would just have you reach over with your phone. (terminal placement was well within reach of customer and cashier, not blocked by anything stupid, etc).
Apr 25, 2018, 5:54 am
#3868
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1) They needed a way to sell the phone (other than the screen size at the time), and this was a great feature to promote.
2) They knew it would take a few years for people to get their hands on an iPhone with NFC in it, so they rolled it out early, hoping 98% of their users would be able to use Apple Pay within a few years.
3) The chip transition was thought to be a way to combine the new technologies together.
Apr 25, 2018, 8:26 am
#3869
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I think it had more to do with a few different reasons:
1) They needed a way to sell the phone (other than the screen size at the time), and this was a great feature to promote.
2) They knew it would take a few years for people to get their hands on an iPhone with NFC in it, so they rolled it out early, hoping 98% of their users would be able to use Apple Pay within a few years.
3) The chip transition was thought to be a way to combine the new technologies together.
1) They needed a way to sell the phone (other than the screen size at the time), and this was a great feature to promote.
2) They knew it would take a few years for people to get their hands on an iPhone with NFC in it, so they rolled it out early, hoping 98% of their users would be able to use Apple Pay within a few years.
3) The chip transition was thought to be a way to combine the new technologies together.
At the same time, a significant number of people probably tried Apple Pay, got frustrated at the lack of merchant support and just stopped using it. Support being much better at the time of rollout might have reduced the need for bank incentives but waiting even a year or two might very well have slowed merchant support. I don't think Apple really had a choice.
Another interesting question as well: would banks have been more willing to try contactless cards again if there was no Apple Pay? Or would they stick with their "mobile device only" approach, only with Samsung and Google being the main players?
Apr 25, 2018, 10:55 am
#3870
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After a couple of days in Dublin, so far no one has taken American Express to tap a physical card - Visa/MC by phone only for me. As with Iceland last year, contactless acceptance nearly universal. They are very tolerant of Chip + Sign without panicking over pens.