Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Dec 29, 2017, 2:17 pm
#3106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Kroger is expanding their "scan as you go" type service to more stores. Interestingly, they were testing in Arizona as well as Cincinnati; I wonder if there was any overlap with the location that had/has contactless enabled.
I'm pretty sure the stick thing is standard at all US McDonald's locations with drive throughs given that the standard terminal is the MX915 regardless of where the POS is located; otherwise it'd be even more unwieldy to pay with a phone than it already is.
Hopefully now that the networks seem to be getting rid of signature altogether, the fast food industry may opt for something smaller next time they have to replace their hardware. Personally I think installing Verifone UX series readers or similar where one orders would work pretty well in the US for cards but cash may be an issue, especially at the places with separate payment and pickup windows.
There are (were?) a few express locations I've seen other the years but not recently. These were usually in the context of shopping plazas and didn't have a standalone building with a drive through. I've never done a mobile payment with a drive through, so I don't know if the local one takes the phone or sticks a terminal out the window to let you pay.
Hopefully now that the networks seem to be getting rid of signature altogether, the fast food industry may opt for something smaller next time they have to replace their hardware. Personally I think installing Verifone UX series readers or similar where one orders would work pretty well in the US for cards but cash may be an issue, especially at the places with separate payment and pickup windows.
Dec 29, 2017, 3:24 pm
#3107
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Kroger is expanding their "scan as you go" type service to more stores. Interestingly, they were testing in Arizona as well as Cincinnati; I wonder if there was any overlap with the location that had/has contactless enabled.
I'm pretty sure the stick thing is standard at all US McDonald's locations with drive throughs given that the standard terminal is the MX915 regardless of where the POS is located; otherwise it'd be even more unwieldy to pay with a phone than it already is.
Hopefully now that the networks seem to be getting rid of signature altogether, the fast food industry may opt for something smaller next time they have to replace their hardware. Personally I think installing Verifone UX series readers or similar where one orders would work pretty well in the US for cards but cash may be an issue, especially at the places with separate payment and pickup windows.
I'm pretty sure the stick thing is standard at all US McDonald's locations with drive throughs given that the standard terminal is the MX915 regardless of where the POS is located; otherwise it'd be even more unwieldy to pay with a phone than it already is.
Hopefully now that the networks seem to be getting rid of signature altogether, the fast food industry may opt for something smaller next time they have to replace their hardware. Personally I think installing Verifone UX series readers or similar where one orders would work pretty well in the US for cards but cash may be an issue, especially at the places with separate payment and pickup windows.
Dec 29, 2017, 4:09 pm
#3108
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I'm not sure the current "unattended" devices are capable of that (vs. something like what JITB used to use), hence why I was suggesting putting the reader near where the microphone/speaker/menu board is. And if cash ends up becoming less common, it wouldn't matter anyway.
Dec 29, 2017, 5:15 pm
#3109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Hilton Citi Visa used
Had lunch at an Indian restaurant today. Instead of taking my card, the waiter said, "I'll be back with the machine." I had not experienced a Clover Mini before, which arrived after he had entered the base amount, with a tip screen displayed, he left me alone for that, though was pleased that I was planning on using Apple Pay (sic). Added tip (15% as he was a great guy ever since I entered), and tapped. Receipt printed as uploaded, and away I went. Seemed to solve the American tipping issue perfectly!
Dec 29, 2017, 5:37 pm
#3110
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Hilton Citi Visa used
Had lunch at an Indian restaurant today. Instead of taking my card, the waiter said, "I'll be back with the machine." I had not experienced a Clover Mini before, which arrived after he had entered the base amount, with a tip screen displayed, he left me alone for that, though was pleased that I was planning on using Apple Pay (sic). Added tip (15% as he was a great guy ever since I entered), and tapped. Receipt printed as uploaded, and away I went. Seemed to solve the American tipping issue perfectly!
Dec 29, 2017, 5:45 pm
#3111
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
I usually tip 10% at buffets such as today. Seattle and Sea Tac servers make $15/hr without tips, so I'm not keen on much more than 15% there. Thing is that diners need not struggle with math for hours, as there are buttons for 15, 18 and 20 (with tip on tax) and zero (for cash option).
I mentioned the coffee truck owner in Arizona, who mistakenly adamantly refused to do a $25 CVM waiver (contactless ability) because he thought that would eliminate people leaving tips.
I mentioned the coffee truck owner in Arizona, who mistakenly adamantly refused to do a $25 CVM waiver (contactless ability) because he thought that would eliminate people leaving tips.
Dec 29, 2017, 6:35 pm
#3112
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Though probably makes a difference that I live in California which doesn't have a separate lower minimum wage for tipped staff.
Dec 29, 2017, 7:09 pm
#3113
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Hilton Citi Visa used
Had lunch at an Indian restaurant today. Instead of taking my card, the waiter said, "I'll be back with the machine." I had not experienced a Clover Mini before, which arrived after he had entered the base amount, with a tip screen displayed, he left me alone for that, though was pleased that I was planning on using Apple Pay (sic). Added tip (15% as he was a great guy ever since I entered), and tapped. Receipt printed as uploaded, and away I went. Seemed to solve the American tipping issue perfectly!
Dec 29, 2017, 7:36 pm
#3114
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
No, it's 15% in the US for normal good service too. Sure people are trying to push it higher, but too bad. And don't believe the ratings that the Square and Clover devices give to each suggested amount; they want to see it higher too (higher transaction total means Square and the other processors get a bigger cut). Maybe I'll accept 15% post-tax these days. 18-20% for great service. 25% is insane.
Though probably makes a difference that I live in California which doesn't have a separate lower minimum wage for tipped staff.
Though probably makes a difference that I live in California which doesn't have a separate lower minimum wage for tipped staff.
Dec 29, 2017, 7:40 pm
#3115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Had lunch at an Indian restaurant today. Instead of taking my card, the waiter said, "I'll be back with the machine." I had not experienced a Clover Mini before, which arrived after he had entered the base amount, with a tip screen displayed, he left me alone for that, though was pleased that I was planning on using Apple Pay (sic). Added tip (15% as he was a great guy ever since I entered), and tapped. Receipt printed as uploaded, and away I went. Seemed to solve the American tipping issue perfectly!
Of course, there's also the chance that the stuff mentioned in articles/comments that have been posted here before isn't be representative of the typical response to pay at the table.
Dec 29, 2017, 7:51 pm
#3116
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Speaking of tip adjust, I researched it for all four networks (and posted about it in the DCC thread), but to recap:
Always allowed: Visa, American Express
Allowed only with chip/swipe and signature: Discover*, Mastercard
* Could not find the Discover rules to confirm, but is implied by this guide on their website.
I'm not sure what impact the differing rules have on what restaurants are doing, though, since nearly every card is already in effect signature-preferring.
Always allowed: Visa, American Express
Allowed only with chip/swipe and signature: Discover*, Mastercard
* Could not find the Discover rules to confirm, but is implied by this guide on their website.
I'm not sure what impact the differing rules have on what restaurants are doing, though, since nearly every card is already in effect signature-preferring.
Dec 29, 2017, 9:06 pm
#3117
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
Interesting can you get a picture of that ATM as that doesn't sound like one that I've seen before. I know different cities different brands such as Wincor Nixdorf in one city but another in the state next to that city uses NCR before they upgraded so maybe the one you saw is a different brand?
https://imgur.com/YRRTr2Z
Not all models have NFC on them though
This is the atm that you will find in Quiktrip at all Atlanta locations:
https://imgur.com/YvRjsQ0
All have NFC on them. Awkward location but it works
NCR models are rare. I have only seen it at one location by me.
Dec 29, 2017, 9:20 pm
#3118
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
I did some after Christmas shopping and Old Navy NFC is low as hell. I should have just used my credit card to swipe because it took forever to activate then once it activated, I would get the approval on my phone a good 30-60 secs before the register would show that the purchase was approved for me.
H&M was quick and fast. Tap, approval and the receipt was out within 10 secs
Bath and Bodyworks, I used Samsung Pay and it went through quickly as well.
H&M was quick and fast. Tap, approval and the receipt was out within 10 secs
Bath and Bodyworks, I used Samsung Pay and it went through quickly as well.
Dec 29, 2017, 9:51 pm
#3119
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I did some after Christmas shopping and Old Navy NFC is low as hell. I should have just used my credit card to swipe because it took forever to activate then once it activated, I would get the approval on my phone a good 30-60 secs before the register would show that the purchase was approved for me.
H&M was quick and fast. Tap, approval and the receipt was out within 10 secs
Bath and Bodyworks, I used Samsung Pay and it went through quickly as well.
H&M was quick and fast. Tap, approval and the receipt was out within 10 secs
Bath and Bodyworks, I used Samsung Pay and it went through quickly as well.
In the Atlanta market, you are likely to see this model at most locations:
https://imgur.com/YRRTr2Z
Not all models have NFC on them though
This is the atm that you will find in Quiktrip at all Atlanta locations:
https://imgur.com/YvRjsQ0
All have NFC on them. Awkward location but it works
NCR models are rare. I have only seen it at one location by me.
https://imgur.com/YRRTr2Z
Not all models have NFC on them though
This is the atm that you will find in Quiktrip at all Atlanta locations:
https://imgur.com/YvRjsQ0
All have NFC on them. Awkward location but it works
NCR models are rare. I have only seen it at one location by me.
Dec 29, 2017, 10:05 pm
#3120
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I did some after Christmas shopping and Old Navy NFC is low as hell. I should have just used my credit card to swipe because it took forever to activate then once it activated, I would get the approval on my phone a good 30-60 secs before the register would show that the purchase was approved for me.