Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Dec 31, 2018, 4:06 pm
#5356
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
Looks like Dunkin' Donuts might have adopted Quick Chip. Will need to go back and see if EMV contactless is enabled too.
I googled it and I think I actually have been there before. I remember trying contactless and it didn't work (albeit a long time ago, so perhaps they fixed the problem since then).
Anyway, I work fairly close to there and I've found that while there are a number of food places that really don't like customers touching terminals (or accepting cards at all, to be honest), it has gotten better over time. Heck, there's one Greek place that finally switched out their pre-2018 Clover Station with the latest contactless/EMV supporting one within the last month or two. I just wish pay at the table was more of a thing.
(Speaking of pay at the table, there is a newish Indian place that I still need to try at some point since the Yelp review I linked here before specifically called it out. Mainly want to see if it's a standalone wireless terminal or something like Clover.)
I googled it and I think I actually have been there before. I remember trying contactless and it didn't work (albeit a long time ago, so perhaps they fixed the problem since then).
Anyway, I work fairly close to there and I've found that while there are a number of food places that really don't like customers touching terminals (or accepting cards at all, to be honest), it has gotten better over time. Heck, there's one Greek place that finally switched out their pre-2018 Clover Station with the latest contactless/EMV supporting one within the last month or two. I just wish pay at the table was more of a thing.
(Speaking of pay at the table, there is a newish Indian place that I still need to try at some point since the Yelp review I linked here before specifically called it out. Mainly want to see if it's a standalone wireless terminal or something like Clover.)
I've got to say in my past month of revisiting this it is a lot better than it used to be. Most people know about it now and it isn't a big surprise when you use it. I used the Isis wallet when it first came out in 2014. Now that got a lot of attention! Back then, the iPhone couldn't do this and the only people who really knew about it worked at phone stores. You never knew what kind of reaction you'd get.
I'd like to see European-style pay at the table take off here, but I think we already know from others who have seen this in other countries that the PIN is really the driver behind that. No PIN mandate, no reason for pay at the table. I remember someone saying this is the same in some South East Asian countries that don't use PIN, and I don't see why it would go any different here.
Sometimes but they always show up for me. Before the last update, I would get the G logo in the notifications after a purchase. That rarely happens now.
If you go back to the app and refresh, it will appear. At least, it does for me.
I've also noticed that Google Map of the location in GPay has disappeared now too. It's just the straight address.
If you go back to the app and refresh, it will appear. At least, it does for me.
I've also noticed that Google Map of the location in GPay has disappeared now too. It's just the straight address.
Dec 31, 2018, 4:45 pm
#5357
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
When we used to get the emails of purchase approvals, even if it didn't show up in the app, you would get the email from Google.
Dec 31, 2018, 6:23 pm
#5358
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Definitely would be worth a try again IMO, the food is better and cheaper. I didn't actually use the contactless so I can't vouch for it but I do remember they had a proper setup.
I've got to say in my past month of revisiting this it is a lot better than it used to be. Most people know about it now and it isn't a big surprise when you use it. I used the Isis wallet when it first came out in 2014. Now that got a lot of attention! Back then, the iPhone couldn't do this and the only people who really knew about it worked at phone stores. You never knew what kind of reaction you'd get.
I'd like to see European-style pay at the table take off here, but I think we already know from others who have seen this in other countries that the PIN is really the driver behind that. No PIN mandate, no reason for pay at the table. I remember someone saying this is the same in some South East Asian countries that don't use PIN, and I don't see why it would go any different here.
I've got to say in my past month of revisiting this it is a lot better than it used to be. Most people know about it now and it isn't a big surprise when you use it. I used the Isis wallet when it first came out in 2014. Now that got a lot of attention! Back then, the iPhone couldn't do this and the only people who really knew about it worked at phone stores. You never knew what kind of reaction you'd get.
I'd like to see European-style pay at the table take off here, but I think we already know from others who have seen this in other countries that the PIN is really the driver behind that. No PIN mandate, no reason for pay at the table. I remember someone saying this is the same in some South East Asian countries that don't use PIN, and I don't see why it would go any different here.
As for pay at the table, I'm not sure chip and signature's the main reason for it not being common in the US. There are still a lot of signature-preferring cards in Mexico, for instance, yet pay at the table is common. (However, I'm not sure they're a good example considering that they're supposedly transitioning to PIN.) I don't have much experience with how things work in SE Asia so I can't comment there.
On that note, I was having a discussion last night about it and while it was a small sample, I'm starting to think that pay at the counter might be just as frowned upon in the US. Main reason being that the line takes forever at the places that do it, as people do last minute to-go orders and complain about bill mistakes to someone who isn't necessarily the same person that served them. I think having optional pay at the counter for people wanting to use contactless (with cards taken away for everyone else) might be okay, but I'm not sure. Regarding pay at the table itself, one possible reason for it being disliked that came up is a feeling of being rushed; at least with the current system, the paper bill is left for the table to figure out whenever they're done.
Basically, our only hope for restaurants is that mobile payment gets way more popular. And even then, there's no guarantee that it won't just be implemented in a restaurant specific app or website.
Dec 31, 2018, 6:28 pm
#5359
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
BTW, Dunkin' Donuts does have EMV contactless now. See below. I've gone ahead and updated the EMV map to reflect that all locations have QC. (I wonder if this applies to Baskin' Robbins too, but then again they still seem fairly inconsistent with EMV in general based on when I last went by one.)
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the city of SD is definitely doing some deferred authorization on contactless parking meter transactions; I have yet to get anything from Chase for when I parked earlier today. It's weird that they (or the company who built the meters) are okay with that for contactless yet insist on online real-time authorization for inserting/removing physical cards.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the city of SD is definitely doing some deferred authorization on contactless parking meter transactions; I have yet to get anything from Chase for when I parked earlier today. It's weird that they (or the company who built the meters) are okay with that for contactless yet insist on online real-time authorization for inserting/removing physical cards.
Last edited by tmiw; Dec 31, 2018 at 7:30 pm
Dec 31, 2018, 8:30 pm
#5360
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,063
I tried Google Pay at a KFC at Senai Airport (JHB) yesterday, but the payment failed. The cashier said that Samsung Pay should work, but there are issues with Apple Pay and Google Pay. I have never setup Samsung Pay with my phone, so I couldn't check quickly to see if that would work too. These were customer facing Verifone style terminals from Maybank. Another contactless transaction was successful at a McDonald's in a shopping mall with a similar setup.
I had no issues in Singapore from all merchants that accepted contactless payments. (A difference is that Google Pay is officially supported in Singapore.) Merchants generically use the term payWave here to include all forms of contactless payment. Terminals seem to be mostly all capable of contactless because every merchant I've visited so far will default by asking, "Is payWave ok?" Perhaps they get more favorable rates?
I had no issues in Singapore from all merchants that accepted contactless payments. (A difference is that Google Pay is officially supported in Singapore.) Merchants generically use the term payWave here to include all forms of contactless payment. Terminals seem to be mostly all capable of contactless because every merchant I've visited so far will default by asking, "Is payWave ok?" Perhaps they get more favorable rates?
Last edited by Majuki; Dec 31, 2018 at 8:36 pm
Dec 31, 2018, 9:17 pm
#5361
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
BTW, Dunkin' Donuts does have EMV contactless now. See below. I've gone ahead and updated the EMV map to reflect that all locations have QC. (I wonder if this applies to Baskin' Robbins too, but then again they still seem fairly inconsistent with EMV in general based on when I last went by one.)
Also Target has said that they are upgrading their pos
Dec 31, 2018, 10:19 pm
#5362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Actually, I'm fairly sure Dunkin' was only MSD contactless when they first got EMV. It's possible that they didn't start printing AID, etc. for contactless until recently though (but then again, they didn't need to enable Quick Chip just for that either).
Jan 1, 2019, 9:58 am
#5363
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
EMV contactless actually came along with the EMV update at Dunkin.
Also Target has said that they are upgrading their pos https://twitter.com/AskTarget/status...06929877630978 I'd bet by the end of 2019 if not a lot more soon that Target has ctls at all locations.
Also Target has said that they are upgrading their pos https://twitter.com/AskTarget/status...06929877630978 I'd bet by the end of 2019 if not a lot more soon that Target has ctls at all locations.
Jan 1, 2019, 10:21 pm
#5364
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Jan 1, 2019, 10:25 pm
#5365
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Paid at the booth at a Kroger gas station this week. Noticed a VX805 was in the payment drawer as it opened up for my payment.
The screen had an idle "WELCOME" message on it and they had taped over both the swipe and chip areas. I held the drawer open as I held my card out and the cashier told me to "stop holding the drawer and put my payment inside" so I did. During this, I had not yet given my loyalty card yet. I told her I wanted to do so. She then opened the drawer back up and told me to enter my phone number into the VX805 which then same up with a prompt that said "ENTER ALT ID." After this I shut the drawer again. She took my chip card up and swiped it on the MX915 inside the booth and the payment processed right away.
I couldn't tell if the VX805 was actually able to take a card or not, but I was most curious if at some point the NFC light would turn on. But I wasn't really able to see.
The screen had an idle "WELCOME" message on it and they had taped over both the swipe and chip areas. I held the drawer open as I held my card out and the cashier told me to "stop holding the drawer and put my payment inside" so I did. During this, I had not yet given my loyalty card yet. I told her I wanted to do so. She then opened the drawer back up and told me to enter my phone number into the VX805 which then same up with a prompt that said "ENTER ALT ID." After this I shut the drawer again. She took my chip card up and swiped it on the MX915 inside the booth and the payment processed right away.
I couldn't tell if the VX805 was actually able to take a card or not, but I was most curious if at some point the NFC light would turn on. But I wasn't really able to see.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:11 am
#5366
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
The terminals at Circle K tonight didn't recognize my Chase Freedom when I tried to tap it. There were "debit" and "credit" handwritten on pieces of paper on the display, though, so at least they might have made it so the cashier doesn't have to push "debit" or "credit" on their end now?
Jan 2, 2019, 10:59 am
#5367
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 49
Another Citi data point: I contacted them and asked if they offered contactless on their Premier, née Thank You Premier, card. Oh yes, they definitely can send one out they said. I made clear I wanted to tap the physical card and not use my phone. Oh yes, this a contactless card they said. Got the card today... no contactless. Oh well.
Jan 2, 2019, 11:03 am
#5368
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Paid at the booth at a Kroger gas station this week. Noticed a VX805 was in the payment drawer as it opened up for my payment.
The screen had an idle "WELCOME" message on it and they had taped over both the swipe and chip areas. I held the drawer open as I held my card out and the cashier told me to "stop holding the drawer and put my payment inside" so I did. During this, I had not yet given my loyalty card yet. I told her I wanted to do so. She then opened the drawer back up and told me to enter my phone number into the VX805 which then same up with a prompt that said "ENTER ALT ID." After this I shut the drawer again. She took my chip card up and swiped it on the MX915 inside the booth and the payment processed right away.
I couldn't tell if the VX805 was actually able to take a card or not, but I was most curious if at some point the NFC light would turn on. But I wasn't really able to see.
The screen had an idle "WELCOME" message on it and they had taped over both the swipe and chip areas. I held the drawer open as I held my card out and the cashier told me to "stop holding the drawer and put my payment inside" so I did. During this, I had not yet given my loyalty card yet. I told her I wanted to do so. She then opened the drawer back up and told me to enter my phone number into the VX805 which then same up with a prompt that said "ENTER ALT ID." After this I shut the drawer again. She took my chip card up and swiped it on the MX915 inside the booth and the payment processed right away.
I couldn't tell if the VX805 was actually able to take a card or not, but I was most curious if at some point the NFC light would turn on. But I wasn't really able to see.
Jan 2, 2019, 11:05 am
#5369
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,079
Another Citi data point: I contacted them and asked if they offered contactless on their Premier, née Thank You Premier, card. Oh yes, they definitely can send one out they said. I made clear I wanted to tap the physical card and not use my phone. Oh yes, this a contactless card they said. Got the card today... no contactless. Oh well.
Jan 2, 2019, 11:10 am
#5370
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Another Citi data point: I contacted them and asked if they offered contactless on their Premier, née Thank You Premier, card. Oh yes, they definitely can send one out they said. I made clear I wanted to tap the physical card and not use my phone. Oh yes, this a contactless card they said. Got the card today... no contactless. Oh well.