Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 6, 2018, 2:17 pm
#3946
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
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Yesterday in London, I asked a server about using a phone to pay? She wasn't sure it would work, but was curious (went through fine) - mirror image of one in Seattle who was familiar with phones, but fascinated with a physical NFC card.
By the way, I don't recall any DCC in UK (Ireland, yes). Considering a contact Amex transaction to see if signature will be waived?
By the way, I don't recall any DCC in UK (Ireland, yes). Considering a contact Amex transaction to see if signature will be waived?
May 6, 2018, 2:50 pm
#3947
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
Since the the Pays are in the UK, I'm a bit surprised the cashier was unfamiliar with a phone based payment. However, contactless with the physical card is far more common. DCC usually won't happen with a contactless transaction, but we have seen cases where it does. DCC isn't as common in the UK as it is in Ireland. I've pretty much only seen it at large chain hotels and airport duty free stores.
May 6, 2018, 3:46 pm
#3948
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
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Since the the Pays are in the UK, I'm a bit surprised the cashier was unfamiliar with a phone based payment. However, contactless with the physical card is far more common. DCC usually won't happen with a contactless transaction, but we have seen cases where it does. DCC isn't as common in the UK as it is in Ireland. I've pretty much only seen it at large chain hotels and airport duty free stores.
May 6, 2018, 4:42 pm
#3949
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
For contactless and DCC, I haven't seen it personally, but I do know it exists. I haven't seen DCC in the context of using Google Pay personally, but I haven't done any controlled experiments.
May 7, 2018, 12:45 am
#3950
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
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As my contactless physical cards are all Amex, absolutely no one in Ireland would take it. In London, it seems as common as back home.
TfL sent an initial test query to see whether the card itself was valid; however, it's the next morning now with my Amex account showing neither pending nor final charges for yesterday's trips?
TfL sent an initial test query to see whether the card itself was valid; however, it's the next morning now with my Amex account showing neither pending nor final charges for yesterday's trips?
May 7, 2018, 2:05 am
#3951
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,066
I've noticed this behavior with AmEx cards where the pending charges will not show sometimes for a preauth amount. A few days later the charge will post.
May 7, 2018, 9:39 am
#3952
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MCN
Posts: 179
Went to Olive Garden last week and tried to pay using contactless on my Hilton Honors Ascend card, but it wouldn't go through; not sure if that was the Ziosk in question acting up or a compatibility issue with Ziosk and Amex contactless. Inserted instead and it went through OK.
May 7, 2018, 9:45 am
#3953
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Went to Olive Garden last week and tried to pay using contactless on my Hilton Honors Ascend card, but it wouldn't go through; not sure if that was the Ziosk in question acting up or a compatibility issue with Ziosk and Amex contactless. Inserted instead and it went through OK.
May 7, 2018, 11:21 am
#3954
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 53
Went to Olive Garden last week and tried to pay using contactless on my Hilton Honors Ascend card, but it wouldn't go through; not sure if that was the Ziosk in question acting up or a compatibility issue with Ziosk and Amex contactless. Inserted instead and it went through OK.
May 7, 2018, 1:00 pm
#3955
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,138
Tried making a purchase at a Giant Eagle near Cleveland, OH yesterday with a Discover card via Apple Pay. They were using a somewhat old-looking POS system (Is it IBM SurePOS 4680/90?) with MX915 pin pads. The pin pads had danglers on the side that indicated that it accepted Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, and Android Pay. When I tried to use my Discover card via Apple Pay, it errored out and told me to insert the card. I tried again with the same result. So, I inserted the card, and the pin pad hung. I had to remove my card and insert it again for it to process correctly.
I did have to sign for the ~$100 purchase.
I did have to sign for the ~$100 purchase.
May 7, 2018, 1:18 pm
#3956
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Weird how my Canadian Amex works but a US one doesn't, Maybe some kind of offline data authentication difference between Canadian and US cards.
May 7, 2018, 1:25 pm
#3957
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
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On that note, I recently noticed some slight data encoding differences in cardpeek when it tells the device that it supports EMV mode vs. when it doesn't. (US cards are still MSD either way.) I wonder if US cards can't support EMV mode because there isn't a way to send over the necessary ODA keys for those yet; if so, the decision to have physical cards support EMV mode would make sense.
May 7, 2018, 2:53 pm
#3958
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SW WA
Posts: 3,888
My local RiteAid supposedly has contactless, but I have yet to get either a phone or my contactless Amex to work at ANY of their terminals. No wonder people are unhappy with the experience.
As an aside, what US issuers offer contactless cards? We're getting rid of the Starwood Amex when they roll out the new changes, but I like having a contactless card (in addition to Google Pay).
As an aside, what US issuers offer contactless cards? We're getting rid of the Starwood Amex when they roll out the new changes, but I like having a contactless card (in addition to Google Pay).
May 7, 2018, 3:51 pm
#3959
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Capital One's Quicksilver. Pretty much all AMEX cards. Paypal's debit card. Citi's Costco card. Sprint's credit card.
May 7, 2018, 8:39 pm
#3960
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
My local RiteAid supposedly has contactless, but I have yet to get either a phone or my contactless Amex to work at ANY of their terminals. No wonder people are unhappy with the experience.
As an aside, what US issuers offer contactless cards? We're getting rid of the Starwood Amex when they roll out the new changes, but I like having a contactless card (in addition to Google Pay).
As an aside, what US issuers offer contactless cards? We're getting rid of the Starwood Amex when they roll out the new changes, but I like having a contactless card (in addition to Google Pay).