Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 19, 2018, 12:28 am
#4021
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,067
I recently did a product change of my Chase Marriott card to the new Premier Plus. Without having to do anything, the card image in Google Pay automatically updated to reflect the new card product.
May 19, 2018, 9:17 pm
#4022
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
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Really annoying that Chase doesn't offer contactless on any of its cards. When I travel having the contactless option really helps. I have it on my HSBC card and all my American Express cards. Now if Chase would just get it together they could increase usage. Until then, they take a secondary place in my wallet when abroad.
May 19, 2018, 11:38 pm
#4023
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Really annoying that Chase doesn't offer contactless on any of its cards. When I travel having the contactless option really helps. I have it on my HSBC card and all my American Express cards. Now if Chase would just get it together they could increase usage. Until then, they take a secondary place in my wallet when abroad.
May 20, 2018, 5:54 am
#4024
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 2,035
If you've ever had a contactless card in your wallet, you'd realize how much easier and less awkward a contactless card is to use. It lets you skip the hassle of explaining to the cashier what you're doing.
They're right, Chase should issue contactless cards and stay ahead of the curve. Capital One, Paypal, AMEX, and Citi all have them.
May 20, 2018, 8:00 am
#4025
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 436
The London Underground is a prime example -- using a contactless card is simple. Using the phone takes longer and you run the risk of battery failure mid trip. Contactless cards don't require on board power.
May 20, 2018, 8:01 am
#4026
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
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We can't bash them for simply wanting to pull out their card and placing it near the terminal to pay.
If you've ever had a contactless card in your wallet, you'd realize how much easier and less awkward a contactless card is to use. It lets you skip the hassle of explaining to the cashier what you're doing.
They're right, Chase should issue contactless cards and stay ahead of the curve. Capital One, Paypal, AMEX, and Citi all have them.
If you've ever had a contactless card in your wallet, you'd realize how much easier and less awkward a contactless card is to use. It lets you skip the hassle of explaining to the cashier what you're doing.
They're right, Chase should issue contactless cards and stay ahead of the curve. Capital One, Paypal, AMEX, and Citi all have them.
Whether using a contactless card is more convenient than a mobile device when paying is another issue. I think if you have something like the Apple Watch, that's not the case. On the other hand, that's another device to buy and keep charged.
(On that note, the US might be the one place where using a mobile wallet is IMO less of a hassle than a contactless card, given how uncommon the latter are, how broken some terminals are with them and the number of places that hide their terminals from customers unless required to hand them over.)
May 20, 2018, 8:05 am
#4027
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
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In my experience both take the same amount of time on the Underground if you authenticate before reaching the gates. Battery also wasn't a huge issue for me, but then again, I didn't have signal underground and didn't bother setting up the Wi-Fi.
May 20, 2018, 8:20 am
#4028
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
...
(On that note, the US might be the one place where using a mobile wallet is IMO less of a hassle than a contactless card, given how uncommon the latter are, how broken some terminals are with them and the number of places that hide their terminals from customers unless required to hand them over.)
(On that note, the US might be the one place where using a mobile wallet is IMO less of a hassle than a contactless card, given how uncommon the latter are, how broken some terminals are with them and the number of places that hide their terminals from customers unless required to hand them over.)
If anything, the watch will create even more friction than the phone, because people see even less of that than paying by phone.
May 20, 2018, 9:19 am
#4029
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
That goes back to one of my points - in the U.S, when you have your card in your hand, the cashier will press the "card" or "total" button to activate the machine. So having a contactless card gets rid of the friction one would face when using a mobile wallet like Apple Pay. One doesn't have to pause for a few seconds and then say, "oh, yeah, I'm paying with a card by the way."
If anything, the watch will create even more friction than the phone, because people see even less of that than paying by phone.
If anything, the watch will create even more friction than the phone, because people see even less of that than paying by phone.
Also, Apple Pay has been around long enough that many of the larger stores will turn the terminal on if they see you trying to wave the phone over the terminal. Not to mention that increasing Quick Chip usage will probably result in not even needing to do that.
May 20, 2018, 9:45 am
#4030
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI,IAD,DCA
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Posts: 650
Really annoying that Chase doesn't offer contactless on any of its cards. When I travel having the contactless option really helps. I have it on my HSBC card and all my American Express cards. Now if Chase would just get it together they could increase usage. Until then, they take a secondary place in my wallet when abroad.
May 20, 2018, 11:52 am
#4031
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Really annoying that Chase doesn't offer contactless on any of its cards. When I travel having the contactless option really helps. I have it on my HSBC card and all my American Express cards. Now if Chase would just get it together they could increase usage. Until then, they take a secondary place in my wallet when abroad.
May 20, 2018, 12:09 pm
#4032
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Looks like you don't go to smaller stores that often. There are a lot in my experience that won't give you the terminal unless you tell them "Apple Pay". They're going to expect you to hand them the card otherwise, after which it will probably be inserted (it'll require explanation to get them to tap the card instead).
Also, Apple Pay has been around long enough that many of the larger stores will turn the terminal on if they see you trying to wave the phone over the terminal. Not to mention that increasing Quick Chip usage will probably result in not even needing to do that.
Wow that was a mouthful. But it’s been a lot better and I default to waving my phone over even cashier facing terminals and 99% of the time they just go ahead and activate them and 95% of the time it works now.
Now that my transit agency finally has a mobile pass app for the bus and the train, my wallet needs to be reached for even lesser and lesser now. I love it. In fact the last few times I used my wallet was for restaurants go figure.
May 20, 2018, 12:57 pm
#4033
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
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I have the Chase MIlage PLus card. I called about a year ago and asked when are they getting contactless? The agent told me never as that is fraud waiting to happen. She told me that people who have contactless can have their identity stolen quicker. I was a little stunned at that remark. Now I wonder why they let me put the card on Apple Pay.
May 20, 2018, 1:12 pm
#4034
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
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I have an Android phone. So it's Google Pay for me 
A few issues for me. In the past when I tried to use Google Pay I needed to enable NFC for it to work. I don't keep that enabled to save battery. It's more difficult for me to unlock the phone and change that setting than to pull out my cc and tap. I've also had places where my phone didn't work even when NFC was on (a cafe in Brussels was one spot) where I was able to tap and pay but couldn't get the phone to work. So I stopped using it.
As such, I forgot about the option to consider using my Chase card through my phone. I used to use Amex, but they have tap and pay now - so no need to have that card loaded. So I just loaded up my Chase UA card to Google Pay and set it as default. Will be interesting to see if it works abroad now (it should, where Google Pay is accepted). Still, that NFC toggle is annoying but assuming it works better than it did for me in Brussels it'll be worth the inconvenience as I prefer to earn UA miles for everyday spend while traveling Internationally.
May 20, 2018, 1:35 pm
#4035
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I don't have Apple Pay I have an Android phone. So it's Google Pay for me
A few issues for me. In the past when I tried to use Google Pay I needed to enable NFC for it to work. I don't keep that enabled to save battery. It's more difficult for me to unlock the phone and change that setting than to pull out my cc and tap. I've also had places where my phone didn't work even when NFC was on (a cafe in Brussels was one spot) where I was able to tap and pay but couldn't get the phone to work. So I stopped using it.
As such, I forgot about the option to consider using my Chase card through my phone. I used to use Amex, but they have tap and pay now - so no need to have that card loaded. So I just loaded up my Chase UA card to Google Pay and set it as default. Will be interesting to see if it works abroad now (it should, where Google Pay is accepted). Still, that NFC toggle is annoying but assuming it works better than it did for me in Brussels it'll be worth the inconvenience as I prefer to earn UA miles for everyday spend while traveling Internationally.
I have an Android phone. So it's Google Pay for me A few issues for me. In the past when I tried to use Google Pay I needed to enable NFC for it to work. I don't keep that enabled to save battery. It's more difficult for me to unlock the phone and change that setting than to pull out my cc and tap. I've also had places where my phone didn't work even when NFC was on (a cafe in Brussels was one spot) where I was able to tap and pay but couldn't get the phone to work. So I stopped using it.
As such, I forgot about the option to consider using my Chase card through my phone. I used to use Amex, but they have tap and pay now - so no need to have that card loaded. So I just loaded up my Chase UA card to Google Pay and set it as default. Will be interesting to see if it works abroad now (it should, where Google Pay is accepted). Still, that NFC toggle is annoying but assuming it works better than it did for me in Brussels it'll be worth the inconvenience as I prefer to earn UA miles for everyday spend while traveling Internationally.