Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 21, 2018, 1:59 pm
#4051
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Noodles & Company is NCR as well and they use the same NCR pos hardware as those NCR BK's but with MX915's.
Oh and Culver's said "It's something that's on our radar for the future. Stay tuned!" so you should start seeing pinpads at Culver's soon hopefully everything is enabled on them as well.
Oh and Culver's said "It's something that's on our radar for the future. Stay tuned!" so you should start seeing pinpads at Culver's soon hopefully everything is enabled on them as well.
May 21, 2018, 2:25 pm
#4052
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
May 21, 2018, 2:45 pm
#4053
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
If someone is trying their mobile wallet, they probably know what they're doing and know if the store accepts it.
Zero common sense behind the counter... Zero.
May 21, 2018, 8:04 pm
#4054
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
Funny thing is Citi sent me a new card recently and at one of the Indian restaurants I go to, the guy is always trying to tap the card on the terminal. So, I think at least some people would know to do that. Of course this new card doesn't have contactless, or even embossed numbers... how cheap & lazy.
Per this spec document it sounds like the "smart card" functionality is something completely different than credit/debit card acceptance. On the other hand, they do link to a Visa EMV PDF somewhere on their website.
They collaborated pretty closely with the major networks before coming out with Apple Pay, so it's not completely out of the question that they'd get enough such data to be able to claim such.
They collaborated pretty closely with the major networks before coming out with Apple Pay, so it's not completely out of the question that they'd get enough such data to be able to claim such.
I remember way back when they came out with parking value cards you could buy at convenience stores loaded with a certain amount that you could use for payment instead of coins. I remember New Orleans came out with that in the 90s sometime. I've never seen anyone use one though, but some city somewhere must still use them.
May 21, 2018, 10:18 pm
#4055
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Personally I tried the whole "pay with phone" thing and I didn't see the point. I can see how it might be useful for some people but pulling out the phone to pay and having to get it in the "sweet spot" seems much to fiddly to me when I can just whip the card out and tap/insert/swipe as needed. Plus nowadays you've got to shell out $800+ for a phone with the feature? No thanks.
Also, NFC isn't that flaky in my experience. MST might be, but I don't have experience using it to be able to say either way.
Funny thing is Citi sent me a new card recently and at one of the Indian restaurants I go to, the guy is always trying to tap the card on the terminal. So, I think at least some people would know to do that. Of course this new card doesn't have contactless, or even embossed numbers... how cheap & lazy.
The PDF is on this page: https://www.ipsgroupinc.com/resources/faq/, under the entry "How do the new EMV regulations affect parking meters?"
May 22, 2018, 8:41 pm
#4056
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
So the MC Contactless locator has been updated as of today, a bit late though.
Last edited by scibot; May 22, 2018 at 8:57 pm
May 23, 2018, 1:14 am
#4057
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Ist-iest, Stariott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,795
Having my Citi Costco card while I've been in Australia on vacation has been amazing. Virtually everywhere I've bought something has a contactless terminal so just tap and go. Avoids the chip + pin hassles like at train station in Europe, or chip + sig find a pen hassles elsewhere in Europe.
I need to call Amex and get a couple of my Amex cards replaced with contactless versions
I need to call Amex and get a couple of my Amex cards replaced with contactless versions
May 24, 2018, 10:23 am
#4058
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
However, there are a few smaller places in San Diego that I've been to before that are now on there. Might be worthwhile to take a look.
May 24, 2018, 10:54 am
#4059
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
I am seeing a lot of PepperJax Grill on the ctls locator now and they use micros for a pos so they could easily add Ingenico pinpads for emv/contactless. I am also seeing a few Arby's which I am sure doesn't accept chip yet alone contactless but you never know. I also saw two or three Shopko's which could be rolling it out but I doubt it will even work since they use Toshiba. I will try to visit these places soon and verify if they accept it or not. But yeah its not that big of an update.
Last edited by scibot; May 24, 2018 at 11:12 am
May 24, 2018, 12:18 pm
#4060
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
I am seeing a lot of PepperJax Grill on the ctls locator now and they use micros for a pos so they could easily add Ingenico pinpads for emv/contactless. I am also seeing a few Arby's which I am sure doesn't accept chip yet alone contactless but you never know. I also saw two or three Shopko's which could be rolling it out but I doubt it will even work since they use Toshiba. I will try to visit these places soon and verify if they accept it or not. But yeah its not that big of an update.
May 24, 2018, 7:05 pm
#4061
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 14
I just saw my local Hy-Vee show up in the Contactless Locator update. I'll have to check it out this week. They still have IBM / Toshiba hardware, NCR Retalix software, and MX915 terminals.
May 24, 2018, 9:30 pm
#4062
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,723
Oh and tmiw so Quiznos accepts contactless was announced along with Smashburger https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/22...r-with-punchh/ about a year ago and here is a picture of their pos setup: https://imgur.com/OVJwQEU the card machine reminds me of Auntie Anne's Ingenico machines. I have not visited one but you can clearly see that machine supports ctls.
May 25, 2018, 2:38 am
#4063
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,067
Having my Citi Costco card while I've been in Australia on vacation has been amazing. Virtually everywhere I've bought something has a contactless terminal so just tap and go. Avoids the chip + pin hassles like at train station in Europe, or chip + sig find a pen hassles elsewhere in Europe.
May 25, 2018, 7:14 am
#4064
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Oh and tmiw so Quiznos accepts contactless was announced along with Smashburger https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/22...r-with-punchh/ about a year ago and here is a picture of their pos setup: https://imgur.com/OVJwQEU the card machine reminds me of Auntie Anne's Ingenico machines. I have not visited one but you can clearly see that machine supports ctls.
May 25, 2018, 8:56 pm
#4065
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Currently on a United flight from IAH to SAN and I noticed one of the FAs before takeoff walking down the aisle with an iPhone and some sort of attachment with a contactless logo on it. No idea if it or EMV works, though. At the very least this might mean they're getting the ability to authorize in real time.