Apr 25, 2017, 8:05 pm
Last edit by: geclub1
Application Link:
Preferred (UnionPay): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...y&origin=00002
Preferred (Visa): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...a&origin=00002
Premier (UnionPay): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...y&origin=00002
Premier (Visa): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...a&origin=00002
Card Service email address:
[email protected]
Preferred (UnionPay): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...y&origin=00002
Preferred (Visa): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...a&origin=00002
Premier (UnionPay): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...y&origin=00002
Premier (Visa): https://icbc-uscards.com/#/?product=...a&origin=00002
Card Service email address:
[email protected]
US based Union Pay card?
May 31, 2017 | 2:18 pm
#151
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Seat 21C on UA
Posts: 988
Made 2 transactions at one store and immediately after leaving got a call. They were for like 10 each.
They're really keeping a close eye on things. The whole address only, no store name thing doesn't help either.
They're really keeping a close eye on things. The whole address only, no store name thing doesn't help either.
May 31, 2017 | 4:00 pm
#152
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,959
I think the low barrier to getting contacted would exclude using this card in more creative ways.
Others have reported the fraud departments at Chinese banks are highly sensitive. It doesn't help that we're having to run fallback transactions anywhere that's switched on EMV in the US.I personally am sticking with my plan of using this card exclusively in China, HK, and Macau as a viable alternative when Visa produces unavoidable DCC and AmEx has acceptance issues.
May 31, 2017 | 10:31 pm
#153
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 150
I've been testing out the card per some other posts online, and I was able to select debit at Safeway. I entered my six digit PIN, and the transaction approved and posted as a purchase:
It is also possible to do a PIN bypass and run it as a credit transaction. Also, I had initially swiped the card, but the terminal asked me to insert. After I inserted the card, the terminal told me to swipe.
I then wanted to see if the Arby's nearby supported PBOC since I knew they were using standalone First Data terminals, but the terminal did not. The cashier was having a difficult time with the terminal because it was giving conflicting information about inserting or swiping the card. Perhaps the terminal was trying to prevent a fallback transaction? Eventually, the transaction went through, and it said it was a Discover card:
Finally, I decided to try it out at Costco. To my surprise, it worked there too after I entered my PIN:
The two transactions above that went over the debit network cleared as purchases. I'm curious which debit network it's using. Might it be Discover's debit network?
It is also possible to do a PIN bypass and run it as a credit transaction. Also, I had initially swiped the card, but the terminal asked me to insert. After I inserted the card, the terminal told me to swipe.
I then wanted to see if the Arby's nearby supported PBOC since I knew they were using standalone First Data terminals, but the terminal did not. The cashier was having a difficult time with the terminal because it was giving conflicting information about inserting or swiping the card. Perhaps the terminal was trying to prevent a fallback transaction? Eventually, the transaction went through, and it said it was a Discover card:
Finally, I decided to try it out at Costco. To my surprise, it worked there too after I entered my PIN:
The two transactions above that went over the debit network cleared as purchases. I'm curious which debit network it's using. Might it be Discover's debit network?
May 31, 2017 | 11:12 pm
#154
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,959
It's not because of the EMV setup at the retailer. You're right that they've enabled EMV, but UnionPay doesn't use EMV for its chipped transactions. It uses the PBOC (People's Bank of China) protocol, which I haven't seen a US terminal support. This is also why it's increasingly difficult to use a Discover card in Mainland China through the interoperability agreement. Pretty much using a Discover card in China or a UnionPay card in the US is causing a fallback transaction.
May 31, 2017 | 11:32 pm
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,743
Fallback is useful on occasion. Nearly every issuer leans on the side of convenience rather than security whenever possible; for example, if the store's having a temporary issue with the chip reader, it's probably not much more risk to approve such a transaction.
My understanding is that PBOC and EMV are somewhat similar. In particular, both UnionPay/PBOC and other EMV cards have AIDs on them (per the "Terminal - POS" tab of this document), which is probably how a terminal can support both. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case in the US at the moment, and I don't know when that'll change.
It's not because of the EMV setup at the retailer. You're right that they've enabled EMV, but UnionPay doesn't use EMV for its chipped transactions. It uses the PBOC (People's Bank of China) protocol, which I haven't seen a US terminal support. This is also why it's increasingly difficult to use a Discover card in Mainland China through the interoperability agreement. Pretty much using a Discover card in China or a UnionPay card in the US is causing a fallback transaction.
Jun 1, 2017 | 2:33 am
#156
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,959
My understanding is that PBOC and EMV are somewhat similar. In particular, both UnionPay/PBOC and other EMV cards have AIDs on them, which is probably how a terminal can support both. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case in the US at the moment, and I don't know when that'll change.
Jun 1, 2017 | 9:37 pm
#157
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7
Yes, you're right. Terminals can definitely support both, and my transaction from February in Hong Kong shows ICBC PBOCCARD as the application. While I wasn't paying close attention, I believe the terminal was the same as if I had used a Visa. Someone like percysmith could come and correct me if merchants in Hong Kong typically have different terminals for UnionPay and everything else.
AFAIK, card terminals in HK/Macau/Taiwan usually have two mode, one for VISA/MASTER/AMEX/JCB cards, another for CUP. Cashiers switch between mode when it is needed.
Merchants who have different terminals usually because of management requirement/ processing rate/ bonus points redemption/ bank promotion, but not merely because of card brands.
Last edited by karlcheong; Jun 1, 2017 at 9:51 pm
Jun 2, 2017 | 6:17 pm
#158
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 150
Well the applabel is just a name given by the bank, it has no meaning in the transaction. Common CUP applabels I had seen included "UICC CREDIT" "UNIONPAY CREDIT", "UICS CREDIT"
AFAIK, card terminals in HK/Macau/Taiwan usually have two mode, one for VISA/MASTER/AMEX/JCB cards, another for CUP. Cashiers switch between mode when it is needed.
Merchants who have different terminals usually because of management requirement/ processing rate/ bonus points redemption/ bank promotion, but not merely because of card brands.
AFAIK, card terminals in HK/Macau/Taiwan usually have two mode, one for VISA/MASTER/AMEX/JCB cards, another for CUP. Cashiers switch between mode when it is needed.
Merchants who have different terminals usually because of management requirement/ processing rate/ bonus points redemption/ bank promotion, but not merely because of card brands.
Jun 2, 2017 | 11:28 pm
#159
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
One... AIDs are not a uniquely EMV thing. Other smart cards use the same application format.
Two... The terminals definitely support the PBOC standards so I don't know why people keep saying that they don't... The application needs certified and loaded like any other...
Two... The terminals definitely support the PBOC standards so I don't know why people keep saying that they don't... The application needs certified and loaded like any other...
Jun 3, 2017 | 6:38 am
#160
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,959
One... AIDs are not a uniquely EMV thing. Other smart cards use the same application format.
Two... The terminals definitely support the PBOC standards so I don't know why people keep saying that they don't... The application needs certified and loaded like any other...
Two... The terminals definitely support the PBOC standards so I don't know why people keep saying that they don't... The application needs certified and loaded like any other...
Jun 3, 2017 | 6:56 am
#161
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
The network sets the certification standards as well as determine who is approved to certify. As far as I know, no US merchant accepts UnionPay chip cards. But the terminals deployed definitely CAN.
Now, why no one has... I have no clue. Maybe the liability isn't seen to outweigh the cost? I do know UnionPay standards are a challenge to meet.
Jun 3, 2017 | 10:18 am
#162
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,959
I remember you mentioning your classmates used their cards in Montana, but this isn't the common case from what I've seen. Most students end up getting a local bank account.
Jun 4, 2017 | 3:01 am
#163
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PVG
Programs: SK*G, QR*G
Posts: 574
I have a Hong Kong unionpay card (from HSBC). About 50% of merchants in China doesn't accept it. They say they don't accept foreign cards. Maybe that's not the correct reason, but that's what they're saying.
I wonder if this card will have the same issue.
I wonder if this card will have the same issue.
Jun 4, 2017 | 9:39 pm
#164
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7
Fortunately, I haven't encounter this issue with my foreign CUP cards in most merchants.
Jun 4, 2017 | 10:10 pm
#165
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,111
I have 100% acceptance as far as I can remember from dining and hotels.
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I remember eons ago I had once merchant say that to me. But I think the guy was trying to avoid interchange altogether but had to explain away the card terminal.