Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Mar 28, 2016 | 9:28 am
#2386
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
1. Altira (acquirer: BNU). The Mark[x] Transaction Currency type. The waitress already advised in advance for me to mark MOP if I wanted that. I frowned, marked X against MOP, signed it ***but asked for a reprint slip***. She satisfactorily produced a no-verbage MOP-only ***** REPRINT! ***** slip. Very good
BEA sent me a SMS, stating a HKD amount @0.996 of my MOP bill was held, but I'm getting a bit more relaxed about held amounts now as discussions here indicate terminals will hold the DCC amount even if the local currency amount is eventually posted.
2. Grand Lisboa (acquirer: BoC): asked for MOP, got MOP without having to tick anything. The BEA SMS came out as MOP. Maybe Dr Ho made sure no DCC occurs in his premises.
3. City of Dreams (acquirer unknown): asked for MOP, got MOP without having to tick anything. The BEA SMS came out as HKD @0.996 though
Mar 29, 2016 | 11:13 am
#2387
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: HA, UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,811
Got DCCd in France and Citi was about as helpful as a turd. Refused to even open up a dispute. They wouldn't even take a suggestion to pressure mastercard to end dcc.
Eventually they did give me a credit for it but thats not the point... Lady didn't know what dcc was and refused to go look it up and didn't really listen to my explanation.
Sigh....
Eventually they did give me a credit for it but thats not the point... Lady didn't know what dcc was and refused to go look it up and didn't really listen to my explanation.
Sigh....
Sometime the little guy makes out
Mar 29, 2016 | 4:38 pm
#2388
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Ambassador, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 8,179
My colleague then used the same machine, and he got hit with the DCC option. So, why didn't my ATM card offer DCC? I think it was because I have an ATM-only card, not a "check card" or "debit card" - that is, my card has the Plus logo on the back meaning it will work on the Visa ATM network, but not a Visa or MasterCard logo, so it can't be used as a credit card. What may happen is that for DCC cash withdrawals, Travelex submits the transactions as purchases, paying the discount rate for purchases out of their 8% conversion rate, and keeps the rest. By having a card that didn't allow for credit card transactions, they couldn't even ask for DCC. Yet another reason I'm happy to have an ATM-only card for all of my accounts.
I also suspect that their model involves paying a premium lease fee for the space to the landlord, perhaps even a small percentage cut of the 8%, in return for an exclusive. There's no other explanation for a facility like LHR to have *only* Travelex ATMs and not any (that I could find) from the many prominent local banks.
Mar 29, 2016 | 5:13 pm
#2389
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,343
Spain
Anyone has recent experiences in Spain?
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
Mar 29, 2016 | 6:04 pm
#2390
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: If only I knew
Programs: Several of my own making in which I was recently fast-tracked to super-duper-ber-elite status
Posts: 1,125
Anyone has recent experiences in Spain?
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
Ran into it again at the cathedral in Seville when paying the entrance fee. The cashier said her boss told her she was required to select DCC if it was an option and refused to budge. Ended up paying cash as I didn't want to hold up the line. Also got hit with it at a small restaurant in Toledo, not given any option and was met with a blank face when I told them to charge me in Euros.
Mar 29, 2016 | 6:42 pm
#2391
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 24,772
Anyone has recent experiences in Spain?
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
After two instances when I was asked to sign a receipt for charges processed in US$, and the merchants refusing to reprocess the transactions in Euros - I successfully disputed the conversion charges with Citi, my credit card issuer - I started telling merchants that if they were presented a choice, I preferred paying in Euros. With the exception of Avis, which gave me a final receipt in Euros and processed the charge in US$, that was the end of that scam.
At a couple of places, I was shown the terminal screen. It asked if to proceed in US Dollars. There were two buttons below the question, a green Proceed and a red No. The natural tendency is to press the green button to continue. A reasonable but incorrect inference is that pressing the red button would void the transaction.
I strongly suspect that the interface of those terminals is deliberately confusing in order to maximize DCC transaction charges and generate more profits for the banks.
Mar 30, 2016 | 2:30 am
#2392
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold
Posts: 9,605
Anyone has recent experiences in Spain?
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
Just read TripAdvisor reviews on the 2 AC hotels we will use in Madrid. One poster complained about being DCCed $40. The hotel replied about the transaction was automatic and they had no option, that it was up to the financial institution the poster banked with on how the charge was processed.
Of course this is a total lie. I wonder what is in the Wili about Spain on the complaint form still holds true.
I've experienced DCC "everywhere" in Spain, hotels, restaurants, shops.
Can't comment about ATMs, since I'm using an Euro card for Euro countries - but would expect them to be fully on DCC, too.
All in all: Heavily DCC infected country. First case I was actually hit with DCC was in Spain. 2010 or 2011.
Mar 30, 2016 | 3:18 am
#2393
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
My experience from Spain: DCC is very widely in use. It's possible, albeit not very easy, to opt-out in most cases. Easier if you speak Spanish I would assume.
I've experienced DCC "everywhere" in Spain, hotels, restaurants, shops.
Can't comment about ATMs, since I'm using an Euro card for Euro countries - but would expect them to be fully on DCC, too.
All in all: Heavily DCC infected country. First case I was actually hit with DCC was in Spain. 2010 or 2011.
I've experienced DCC "everywhere" in Spain, hotels, restaurants, shops.
Can't comment about ATMs, since I'm using an Euro card for Euro countries - but would expect them to be fully on DCC, too.
All in all: Heavily DCC infected country. First case I was actually hit with DCC was in Spain. 2010 or 2011.
Mar 30, 2016 | 7:06 am
#2394
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oregon
Programs: ex-DL FO, what a pedigree
Posts: 158
Hrumph. DCC overcharge, but no dispute.
I had two businesses in Jordan hit me with DCC, they told me there was no way to pay in the local currency. I let them know I would dispute the fee and they told me to go ahead, they couldn't change it. It didn't look like they selected "Pay in USD" on their card reader at any time, so I am wondering if they sometimes they don't have a choice. My bank did a "courtesy adjustment" and refunded the fees (about $21 total) but didn't file any dispute. Hard to imagine that I am sending a message to Visa if my bank isn't willing to dispute it, it's easier for them to just pay me off. 
Mar 30, 2016 | 7:29 am
#2395
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold
Posts: 9,605
Wikipedia says the following about the Jordanian Dinar:
Since October 23, 1995, the dinar has been officially pegged to the IMF's special drawing rights (SDRs). In practice, it is fixed at 1 U.S. dollar = 0.709 dinar most of the time, which translates to approximately 1 dinar = 1.41044 dollars.
What rate did they run you? Much worse than 0.709? Any chance that they've a system similar to Lebanon, where you're getting charged in USD at most places anyway (ie, USD is their local currency for CC transactions, _NOT_ getting DCCed that way, but actually getting better rates when paying with USD cards than with any else, as everyone but USD denominated have Forex..)
Since October 23, 1995, the dinar has been officially pegged to the IMF's special drawing rights (SDRs). In practice, it is fixed at 1 U.S. dollar = 0.709 dinar most of the time, which translates to approximately 1 dinar = 1.41044 dollars.
What rate did they run you? Much worse than 0.709? Any chance that they've a system similar to Lebanon, where you're getting charged in USD at most places anyway (ie, USD is their local currency for CC transactions, _NOT_ getting DCCed that way, but actually getting better rates when paying with USD cards than with any else, as everyone but USD denominated have Forex..)
Mar 30, 2016 | 10:52 am
#2396
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,343
Thanks everyone for info of the situation in Spain.
DCC benefits BOTH the banks and the merchants. I actually suspect the merchants benefit MORE than the banks when pulling DCC scams.
We would be in Madrid for just a few days.
3 pay hotels - 2 nights, 1 each at an AC hotel within 2 blocks to each other that we hotel hop for the Marriott current promotion, and plan to pay with the Marriott card which earns 5x, but can also pay with Citi Premier which earn 3x TYP. Essentially the pts earned are more or less equal value but prefer to put some charges on the Marriott card before the anniversary date.
Then one night at the Crowne Plaza at MAD that has to pay with a Chase IHG card to fulfill one of the promotion requirements so to unlock 45K Q1 bonus.
Will try my best to make the hotels bill in Euro. All 3 hotels front desks reportedly are fluent in English. Though I guess it does not hurt to present a note in Spanish (using Google Translator) to inform the front desk be billed in Euro.
About Avis - we had an experience in Frankfurt last year - despite the invoice was in Euro, WITHOUT the language of "customer agree to be billed in USD, blah blah blah" that one normally sees on an Avis contract that we always made the return counter to reverse it, the charge went on the CC in USD - BUT not at the current rate + padding at the return time, instead it was at the EXACT USD on the quote when the reservation was made a few months ago, at the time when USD was stronger. I also checked the conversation at the reservation and it did not have padding.
So I am not too sure about how the Avis billing works - we automatically assume Avis DCCed us because it was in USD. But in all reality, it might not be. It is just very confusing, unless you compare a lot of information to find out exactly what amount is being charged when in terms of local currency. In our case, had they stuck with Euro, we would have paid almost 5% more than they billed us the USD exactly as quoted on the reservation.
It looks like if you do not use the card in your Avis profile where you could opt out DCC for Visa/MC, then you would be billed in USD should you use Visa/MC regardless what the invoice said. Strange thing is, the DCC may not be the current rate + padding at the tine of return as we thought it would be.
Nowadays whenever we rent from Avis, I always make a screen shot of the last page in local currency, before it turns into USD on the finalization of the reservation - so I would know how much in local currency it would be. Will see how it turns out in Croatia when we would be there for 2 weeks in May.
DCC benefits BOTH the banks and the merchants. I actually suspect the merchants benefit MORE than the banks when pulling DCC scams.
We would be in Madrid for just a few days.
3 pay hotels - 2 nights, 1 each at an AC hotel within 2 blocks to each other that we hotel hop for the Marriott current promotion, and plan to pay with the Marriott card which earns 5x, but can also pay with Citi Premier which earn 3x TYP. Essentially the pts earned are more or less equal value but prefer to put some charges on the Marriott card before the anniversary date.
Then one night at the Crowne Plaza at MAD that has to pay with a Chase IHG card to fulfill one of the promotion requirements so to unlock 45K Q1 bonus.
Will try my best to make the hotels bill in Euro. All 3 hotels front desks reportedly are fluent in English. Though I guess it does not hurt to present a note in Spanish (using Google Translator) to inform the front desk be billed in Euro.
About Avis - we had an experience in Frankfurt last year - despite the invoice was in Euro, WITHOUT the language of "customer agree to be billed in USD, blah blah blah" that one normally sees on an Avis contract that we always made the return counter to reverse it, the charge went on the CC in USD - BUT not at the current rate + padding at the return time, instead it was at the EXACT USD on the quote when the reservation was made a few months ago, at the time when USD was stronger. I also checked the conversation at the reservation and it did not have padding.
So I am not too sure about how the Avis billing works - we automatically assume Avis DCCed us because it was in USD. But in all reality, it might not be. It is just very confusing, unless you compare a lot of information to find out exactly what amount is being charged when in terms of local currency. In our case, had they stuck with Euro, we would have paid almost 5% more than they billed us the USD exactly as quoted on the reservation.
It looks like if you do not use the card in your Avis profile where you could opt out DCC for Visa/MC, then you would be billed in USD should you use Visa/MC regardless what the invoice said. Strange thing is, the DCC may not be the current rate + padding at the tine of return as we thought it would be.
Nowadays whenever we rent from Avis, I always make a screen shot of the last page in local currency, before it turns into USD on the finalization of the reservation - so I would know how much in local currency it would be. Will see how it turns out in Croatia when we would be there for 2 weeks in May.
Last edited by Happy; Mar 30, 2016 at 11:06 am
Mar 30, 2016 | 12:48 pm
#2397
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: LH SEN, BA Gold, SK Gold; Accor Diamond; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meli/HH/Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 5,682
I have not yet seen any reports of businesses paying a bonus or commission to staff who 'sell' DCC to customers, so for the time being will continue to assume that individual employees are not knowingly trying to scam me.
Mar 30, 2016 | 2:38 pm
#2398
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,683
Some payment processors keep everything (and get merchants to sign up by persuading them that it's great for their customers and "there is no cost to you"), others appear to pass most of the additional FX margin on to the merchant (see the section "how we make you money" near the bottom of this page for an example) -- although we can assume that this is not an act of generosity: the payment processor will benefit from the higher amounts being charged and may well be charging more for terminals/software etc. in the first place.
Originally Posted by continuumcommerce.com
Your customers will have the ability to pay in their own currency which is a great customer service benefit, particularly if they have been surprised by payment amounts on their billing statement in the past.
Sure, happy to pay extra
Mar 30, 2016 | 9:51 pm
#2399
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
BoC China is less generous with 50% reduced swipe fees on DCC transactions http://wenku.baidu.com/view/5c97658a...87732132e.html
(see the section "how we make you money" near the bottom of this page for an example)
Last edited by percysmith; Mar 31, 2016 at 12:44 am
Mar 31, 2016 | 12:35 am
#2400
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
What rate did they run you? Much worse than 0.709? Any chance that they've a system similar to Lebanon, where you're getting charged in USD at most places anyway (ie, USD is their local currency for CC transactions, _NOT_ getting DCCed that way, but actually getting better rates when paying with USD cards than with any else, as everyone but USD denominated have Forex..)