Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, dont call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, dont call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 14, 2020, 4:06 pm
#481
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I assume it will be state by state or even more granular, as all current policies and restrictions. Not sure that there is even the legal ability for the federal government to implement policies similar to Italy/France. I think the wiki requests this thread to be kept of speculation, though, so I will stop here.
Last edited by notquiteaff; Mar 14, 2020 at 4:12 pm
Mar 14, 2020, 4:09 pm
#482
Join Date: Dec 2014
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The airlines/agents are acting like the guy selling $100 gallon jugs of water after a hurricane. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/t...ban-paris.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/t...ban-paris.html
Mar 14, 2020, 4:22 pm
#483
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Marriott Titanium, National EE
Posts: 538
I dont click on nytimes articles anymore. Too much hysteria.
That said, its interesting reaction.... If everyone is scared to death of this virus, why wouldnt you pay $20k to get home?
If its as bad as the media fears, wouldnt you trade anything in your life to get home?
(Presumably so you can die with dignity in your home of this super killer disease?)
When you are in a car crash, you dont ask how much the Ambulance ride is... you will pay whatever to get to the hospital.
Anyway, the fact that people are worrying about refunds and flight credits means, deep down, they all think they are going to survive.
Strange to note that....
That said, its interesting reaction.... If everyone is scared to death of this virus, why wouldnt you pay $20k to get home?
If its as bad as the media fears, wouldnt you trade anything in your life to get home?
(Presumably so you can die with dignity in your home of this super killer disease?)
When you are in a car crash, you dont ask how much the Ambulance ride is... you will pay whatever to get to the hospital.
Anyway, the fact that people are worrying about refunds and flight credits means, deep down, they all think they are going to survive.
Strange to note that....
And it's not about dying or surviving. It's about whether you want to be sick with symptoms worse than the flu (affects about 20% of those that get COVID-19)
Mar 14, 2020, 4:23 pm
#484
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
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This is the best article to articulate the situation I have seen so far.
It has received ~27 million views in the last 72h. 26 translations at bottom
Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-f4d3d9cd99ca
Mar 14, 2020, 4:28 pm
#485
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Mar 14, 2020, 4:59 pm
#486
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
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I assume it will be state by state or even more granular, as all current policies and restrictions. Not sure that there is even the legal ability for the federal government to implement policies similar to Italy/France. I think the wiki requests this thread to be kept of speculation, though, so I will stop here.
Last edited by nk15; Mar 14, 2020 at 5:06 pm
Mar 14, 2020, 5:12 pm
#487
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Spain
Programs: ALL Plat, HH Gold, Marriott GE
Posts: 1,144
Look firstly at China, then Italy, then the rest of Europe.
It will soon be worldwide lockdown
60 days ago, no one in any prediction said that 140 million people in Europe ( France, Italy, Spain etc ) would be confined to their residences.
Border closures in peacetime ....
It is not going to go away soon, and it will be very costly in terms of jobs and industry.
There will be nationalisations of some industries, such as airlines and train operators - they are hemorrhaging money
Hotel groups will push the cost back to the franchisee, and a lot of chains will contract due to insolvency of individual hotels
sad times
It will soon be worldwide lockdown
60 days ago, no one in any prediction said that 140 million people in Europe ( France, Italy, Spain etc ) would be confined to their residences.
Border closures in peacetime ....
It is not going to go away soon, and it will be very costly in terms of jobs and industry.
There will be nationalisations of some industries, such as airlines and train operators - they are hemorrhaging money
Hotel groups will push the cost back to the franchisee, and a lot of chains will contract due to insolvency of individual hotels
sad times
Mar 14, 2020, 5:15 pm
#488
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Haze gray and underway
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Perhaps they are not worried about dying and more worried about stuck for 14 days in quarantine = missed income or important events at home
And it's not about dying or surviving. It's about whether you want to be sick with symptoms worse than the flu (affects about 20% of those that get COVID-19)
And it's not about dying or surviving. It's about whether you want to be sick with symptoms worse than the flu (affects about 20% of those that get COVID-19)
Mar 14, 2020, 5:17 pm
#489
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,846
Are there any explanations why both the number of deaths and the number of serious/critical cases is so low in Germany? Germany only has 9 deaths and 9 serious cases (source). I cannot find a German source for the number of serious cases, but the number of deaths matches German official numbers.
Are doctors in Germany keeping hopeless patients in coma instead of switching off life support? Are serious cases being underreported? It's a little too good to be true, especially compared with France, which has a similar number of cases and a similar growth curve.
South Korea also has an abnormal low number of both deaths and serious cases, with both under 1%.
Are doctors in Germany keeping hopeless patients in coma instead of switching off life support? Are serious cases being underreported? It's a little too good to be true, especially compared with France, which has a similar number of cases and a similar growth curve.
South Korea also has an abnormal low number of both deaths and serious cases, with both under 1%.
Mar 14, 2020, 5:20 pm
#490
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And then there is this...This passes as entrepreneurship, but it should be a federal crime, hoarding critical supplies with intent of price gouging and profiteering, or something like that...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...e=BB11blvS_1|1
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...e=BB11blvS_1|1
Mar 14, 2020, 5:22 pm
#491
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And then there is this...This passes as entrepreneurship, but it should be a federal crime, hoarding critical supplies with intent of price gauging and profiteering, or something like that...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...e=BB11blvS_1|1
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...e=BB11blvS_1|1
Mar 14, 2020, 5:24 pm
#492
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What did you think of the article?
I didn’t read every word. A lot of what I saw has been discussed here and elsewhere and also matches public assessments by subject matter experts. I don’t think the author is claiming that he did novel (pun intended) research in his post. It is an aggregation of information available elsewhere, presented in a relatively easy to understand format with lots of graphs and explanations. No doubt a detail here or there will be inaccurate. The general message of the post, however, seems accurate and sensible (unless, perhaps, one still subscribes to the “it’s just a bad flu” religion).
Another article that I think has a similar goal of educating the general public beyond the shallow depth of most news reports is
https://www.flattenthecurve.com
The qualifications of that page’s author:
“I have a masters degree in public health from the University of London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine as well as a background in infectious diseases and vaccine development. The impact of this pandemic will be needlessly amplified by misinformation, so be careful. I’ve endeavored to be as accurate as possible without causing panic. I have not been paid to write this post, but given my training I do feel like it is my responsibility. This is a volunteer effort that qualified people are welcome to help contribute to. Frankly the only reason it is not anonymous is because it would be less likely to be taken seriously, and we need all of the gravitas we can get right now.Full disclosure, I worked in the TB and HIV vaccine field from 2000-2010 but have since switched gears into rare disease genetics. I’m currently an assistant professor (senior research) at Oregon State University in the College of Public Health”
Mar 14, 2020, 5:26 pm
#493
Join Date: Nov 2009
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The "formal training in relevant disciplines." weights little in my mind, In one of my interests (climate change) many PhDs with formal training in relevant disciplines should not have received their degree..
Could you please share some of the critical comments? I hope they have some valid specific points to weaken this article. Looking forward to whatever info you can provide. Thanks in advance
Last edited by PanAmWT; Mar 14, 2020 at 5:31 pm
Mar 14, 2020, 5:28 pm
#494
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
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Posts: 1,850
And then there is this...This passes as entrepreneurship, but it should be a federal crime, hoarding critical supplies with intent of price gouging and profiteering, or something like that...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...e=BB11blvS_1|1
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he...e=BB11blvS_1|1
Mar 14, 2020, 5:59 pm
#495
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Join Date: Feb 1999
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Posts: 34,339
Are there any explanations why both the number of deaths and the number of serious/critical cases is so low in Germany? Germany only has 9 deaths and 9 serious cases (source). I cannot find a German source for the number of serious cases, but the number of deaths matches German official numbers.