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ConciergeMike Jan 28, 2010 7:55 am


Originally Posted by gbryan84 (Post 13273779)
It's all walkable and you can get anywhere via subway. If hotels are cheaper in Chelsea then I would highly recommend it. Your wife will especially enjoy the Chelsea/Greenwich village area.

When are you thinking of coming up? If you want to do a half day in Hoboken let me know. Again, your wife will love the shops (reasonably priced) there and perhaps we can get rolov to join us for a beer while the girls shop.

Go visit teh Cake Boss and get a cannoli. :-:

Mackieman Jan 28, 2010 7:56 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 13273775)
Unless this person is proving up records, or unless they were somehow personally involved in your transaction, I would be suspicious as to the purpose of this witness.

If the witness does not fall into those categories, I suspect they will attempt to offer some form of "expert" testimony (regarding booking/ticketing process, IT systems, who knows). First off, many small-claims courts have limitations or bars to such testimony (it's supposed to be a court easily accessible to lay-people, not requiring such levels of proof). So, if it's an "expert," I would first try to object on such grounds (if they exist in New York).

Further, an expert has to be qualified by his/her training, education and experience as an expert in the area in which he/she will be giving testimony, the scientific methodology underlying the witness' proposed testimony must be sound, and his/her testimony must be relevant to the issue at hand, and that testimony must be reasonably calculated to assist the trier of fact (here, the judge) in reaching a decision on some ultimate issue.

If they try to weasel in some "expert" testimony, you have a right to object to the witness' qualifications, and to cross-examine them as to their education, training, experience (etc.), and the soundness of the scientific methodology underpinning his/her testimony.

The relevance of their proposed grounds of testimony (and whether it's in any way more helpful than lay testimony) are more of a legal argument that would be made to the judge, rather than an issue for cross-examination. Under no circumstances should any purported expert be allowed to testify without a proper predicate laid for their claimed area of expertise, as well as a proper predicate for the "scientific" basis of their testimony (is their hypothesis testable, has it been peer-reviewed, was this opinion formed only for the purposes of litigation, etc.).

ETA - Going back to the admissibility of expert testimony in small-claims proceedings... normal court proceedings involve extensive discovery, where experts are disclosed (and their qualifications or methodology can be challenged) well in advance of trial. It would be inequitable to allow them to present scientific/expert testimony without any prior notice to you, as this constitutes unfair surprise and/or trial by ambush, neither of which is in keeping with sound public policy.

ALCO, the people's lawyer. I actually understood most of that. ^

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Jan 28, 2010 7:59 am


Originally Posted by Mackieman (Post 13273821)
ALCO, the people's lawyer. I actually understood most of that. ^

It's actually fairly standard legal terminology that you'll find in SCOTUS cases like Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharma and Supreme Court of Texas cases like Havner and Robinson. There has been a strong movement in legal writing/drafting over the past several decades to avoid arcane legalese, and to draft opinions and pleadings in plain, straightforward English that is easily understood. The days of painfully obtuse rulings with flowery language are, thankfully, far behind us (for the most part).

ETA - And IANAL. I'm working on it, though! :D

ConciergeMike Jan 28, 2010 7:59 am


Originally Posted by Hartmann (Post 13273815)
Would you fly in to EWR or LGA when staying in Chelsea? The hotels are definitely cheaper there.

LGA is physically closer by about 3 miles.

sbm12 Jan 28, 2010 8:01 am

BA is now offering an open-ended $300 TCV to each of us. Even the Clerk seems to think that I have no case since the only actual damages would come if I had previously spent other cash, not simply for the replacement value of the deal. And the witness is the Manager of BA's Customer Service & Refunds group in the Americas.

They are claiming that it was an obvious error so the law is on their side with a "whoopsie" clause. She seemed a bit surprised that I have documentation of comparable fares that make this simply look like a sale rather than just a mistake.

Not sure how to proceed. I certainly have a bit of time while waiting to be called.

Steph3n Jan 28, 2010 8:02 am

It has been winter mixing it for 4 hours here!

By that i mean rain/sleet

Making it hard to rest at all, with a metal roof over my head.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Jan 28, 2010 8:03 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13273861)
And the witness is the Manager of BA's Customer Service & Refunds group in the Americas.

And how is his/her testimony relevant to whether there was a binding contract between you and BA that was breached?

ETA - Regardless of how "nice" or "reasonable" their mop-up division was to you after the fact, that has nothing to do with the underlying contract, IMHO. If that's all she's going to testify about, I would object that his/her testimony is irrelevant to the breach of contract claim, and should be excluded.

sbm12 Jan 28, 2010 8:03 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 13273848)
LGA is physically closer by about 3 miles.

But AirTrain/NJT is about the same as a cab from LGA and no traffic.

I can give plenty of info about Chelsea since I live here. ;)

windwalker Jan 28, 2010 8:04 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13273670)
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9630/4.7.1.40 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Hmmmm...BA brought a witness this morning. Interesting.

:popcorn:

sbm12 Jan 28, 2010 8:06 am


Originally Posted by Anglo Large Clawed Otter (Post 13273869)
And how is his/her testimony relevant to whether there was a binding contract between you and BA that was breached?

ETA - Regardless of how "nice" or "reasonable" their mop-up division was to you after the fact, that has nothing to do with the underlying contract, IMHO. If that's all she's going to testify about, I would object that her testimony is irrelevant to the breach of contract claim, and should be excluded.

I'm less worried about her testimony and more worried about convincing the judge/arbitrator that I'm actually due more than just my original refund from the transaction. Apparently they are going to claim that simply giving my money back is sufficient to nullify the contract.

ETA- And she was personally involved. I spoke with her a couple times, but that doesn't seem relevant.

Xyzzy Jan 28, 2010 8:08 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 13273734)
I'm not native, but I think Chelsea is too low...the lower third of Manhattan needs a day on its own between the WTC site/museum, Chinatown, Little Italy, the Village, etc. I would say stay in Midtown if it's possible to do so; you're close to the stuff that NYC is generally associated with and have a lot more options in the way of mass transit.

I think it's fine. Pretty much anywhere in Manhattan is well connected to transit.

Anglo Large Clawed Otter Jan 28, 2010 8:09 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13273895)
I'm less worried about her testimony and more worried about convincing the judge/arbitrator that I'm actually due more than just my original refund from the transaction. Apparently they are going to claim that simply giving my money back is sufficient to nullify the contract.

Does the refunded amount match what it would cost to obtain a replacement ticket for your intended dates of travel (i.e., the position you were in when you made the original contract)?

ETA - If she hasn't testified already, be sure to lodge your objections to her testimony before she starts talking. :-:

If they want to put her up there to discuss refunds, just tell the judge you are willing to stipulate to the refunded amount, thus rendering her testimony moot.

Xyzzy Jan 28, 2010 8:12 am


Originally Posted by ConciergeMike (Post 13273848)
LGA is physically closer by about 3 miles.

Judging by that it's a wash. The real questions center around what time of day you will be arriving and how you plan to get to your hotel.

sbm12 Jan 28, 2010 8:13 am


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13273895)
Apparently they are going to claim that simply giving my money back is sufficient to nullify the contract.

And, in speaking with the Clerk, this is apparently acceptable in the realm of Small Claims Court for NYC. They only deal with cash out of pocket, not other damages. They don't care about making me complete so much as they do about resetting to the position before I ever started. They reset to pre-original contract, not the position once the contract is agreed to. Doesn't make much sense to me, but apparently that is the way the system works. I'd have to go to real court for real enforcement of the contract.

Hartmann Jan 28, 2010 8:16 am


Originally Posted by xyzzy (Post 13273928)
Judging by that it's a wash. The real questions center around what time of day you will be arriving and how you plan to get to your hotel.

We'd be getting in late on Friday night (10:30-11pm) and leaving midday Monday (3-5pm).


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