Happy

There was at least one case TYN did a partial refund of TYPs when the original ticket was changed to a new ticket but the residuals went back to the original form of payment, namely TYN's card.

The only way you get an ETC in this situation, is NOT to take advantage of the travel waiver on the $150. So at the end, the net result is mitigated by the fact that a higher residual value is returned to TYN, hence a higher portion of TYPs will be credited back to her account.

However, this would not automatically happen. She needs to call TYN and explained the situation to them. From others reported experiences, there is a dedicated person (in a VP position, no less), specifically assigned to handle TYP refunds.

peteypablo

I have contacted my daughter about this. She tells me that CO told her which card they would be refunding to and that it was her credit card number. Responding to my concern, she called twice to verify and was reassured of the same. No credit has shown so far. I encouraged to make a note of her conversations. Since they actually promised her the credit would go to her credit card and actually verified the number, she may have a case for detrimental reliance with CO if they don't follow through. And she has lawyers in the family who will write the letter for her.

moondog

Please keep us posted on the results. As much as I want to say that your daughter did an excellent job pinning down CO on all of the relevant details, the fact that many people in similar positions have been hosed in the past, suggests to me that her odds are not very good.

Insofar as the family lawyers are concerned, while a simple letter may be worth your/their time, anything beyond that probably constitutes as waste of resources (i.e. CoC, which your daughter agreed to, would be pretty difficult to overcome).

Happy

I found it fascinating the CO rep can repeat the CC number to her - in my experiences dealing with airlines reservation agents, they dont seem to have the ability to see the FULL credit card number from their screen, as evidenced that on occasions when they mis-input the card number, they always need a full repeat of the number and some have mentioned they dont see the numeric once are input. Of course, that does not preclude that CO system is different, or the agent actually wrote down the number on paper (it is against the rules I believe).

There seems to be some misunderstanding between your daughter and the CO rep(s). In your daughter's mind, it was her own CC, and may even give the number to the rep to verify. In the reps' mind, it was to the original form of payment, if she said this was what she used to pay the ticket (it is NOT but she does not understand it, even you dont seem to understand it.), so Yeah, that will be the card that the refund is sent to. It could be a misunderstanding as simple as that.

It is a very restrictive practice, practiced by virtually all the airlines (and merchants) - the refund goes back to the ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. I think by now you would have accepted the truth, the Original Form of Payment is TYN's card, not your daughter's card - whatever your daughter told you about her dealings with CO and you choose to believe, nothwithstanding.

The FTers are posting based on reported cases and in some cases, their own experiences, to help you out as much as they can. Whatever action path you choose to take, is of course your own business. However, taking it to the level of a lawyer's letter seems to be way overkilled, especially for something that is, IMO, screwed up by your daughter in the first place.

The lawyers in the family should know, the practice of refund to the original form of payment, is to prevent credit card fraud.

In order to refund to a Credit Card that is NOT used for the original payment, the merchant must make a special request to put the credit through. I doubt CO refund dept would do that. I can also tell you based on real case that a large refund to a credit card without previous charge from the credit issuer, can trigger Fraud Alert with the card issuer, resulting to adverse action. Again, this is to prevent credit card fraud.

When you sit down to do the actual math, if you have to pay the $150 fee, your net "credit" is not a whole lot more than now you will get almost all your TYPs refunded to you, minus the $57 cheapie ticket. What a waste of resources, even for Pro Bono services.

But, we are all eager to hear the triumphant story from you, to pin down CO on the case of "detrimental reliance".

Please do update us on the outcome.

FLYINBELLS

Disclaimer: I have read virtually every post in this thread. However....

I believe I understand everything in this process, but I would really like someone to verify this who is knowledgeable before I potentially screw something up.

I have a flight I booked on UA after the devaluation to $1800. I booked in February, for a flight August 3, 2009 which obviously I need to cancel post haste. I intended to cancel and book another flight right away, but I literally have no itineraries coming up in the near future that I can use the credit on.

If I don't want to book a throwaway, I can cancel the existing flight now and UA will just show a credit for the balance until February 2010, and NOT refund to TY, correct? Then I have until Feb 2010 to book a flight and retain any balance in a voucher, also correct?

Also, is it best to cancel by phone or online?

Please no flames, I just want to make damn sure I don't throw away $1800+ due to any mistake on my part.

Happy

In order to preserve the value of the unused ticket, you must cancel it before the travel time. The value is stored under your ticket number, good to use up to 1 year from the date of the Original Purchase - that is the date in February.

I will cancel the ticket over the phone. The rep will tell you all the above over the phone when you cancel the ticket.

Unlike CO, which would show a cancelled ticket online, UA system does not have such ability. However, the value is definitely stored under your old ticket number in UA's system. It will not be refunded to TYN as long as the ticket is non-refundable.

Why do you intend to book a flight right away if you dont have any itinerary in mind? Just make sure to book something, be it a throw-away or a real trip, before the 1 year anniversary.

The only thing that is not clear is, whether you can book a trip to travel AFTER the 1 year mark, or you MUST FINISH TRAVEL before the 1 year mark. It seems different agents have different interpretation, but the language on UA website seems to imply the latter. I would play it safe to treat it as travel must complete before the 1 year mark, and do the rebooking accordingly.

You can do your rebooking over the phone, the residual voucher will be mailed to you in a few weeks. Using this method, you can only book a ticket for yourself. If you want to use the ticket value for you and other people, you need to make separate reservation for each passenger, and then ticket the reservations at airport. Each ticketing process would produce a residual voucher which is used for subsequent ticket until all tickets are done. The last ticketed passenger's name will be on the residual voucher if there is still value left.

Check UA website to find out the operation time of the ticket counter at your airport, though some on UA Forum said the information is not up to date - but there is no other way to get accurate info, as it is the same info the UA Reservation agents will read from their system.

Finally, as of now UA no longer has hold function online. But you can still hold reservation using automatic phone system.

MikeInMass

I was not able to use the ticket value for both me and another passenger. The ticket agent at the BWI UA counter told me that because the ticket is non-transferable, it can only be used for travel for me, and that the residual-value voucher he would issue would also be non-transferable.

I asked for a supervisor, and she told me the same thing. So I left the counter to try again another day.

Anyone have a similar experience?

Happy

From the last post of this thread in UA Forum, the BWI station supervisor is wrong.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...lses-name.html

I copy and paste the last post on the above thread below.

May 29, 09, 1:31 am #9
cmhua777


I always believed that to be true as well; however, I just applied the value of a non-refundable ticket to purchase a cheaper, non-refundable ticket and UA issued me the remaining balance as a travel credit. The credit clearly states that this can be applied to any ticket, including in someone else's name, provided I ticket it in person.

I don't believe the OP will have any trouble using the credit so long as the person it was originally issued to shows up at ticketing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can either ticket a cheapie throw-away to just get a voucher print out and then you can shove it to the agent to ticket whatever you really need.

Or you can take the risk and just ask him to ticket you first, get the voucher, and then show him the voucher wordings, and tell him to take care the 2nd ticket.

In any case, you need to have separate reservation for each person's ticket.

zlc

People always talk about buying a cheap throughaway ticket in order to get the voucher which can be used by anyone.

Is it possible to buy a cheap refundable ticket instead of a throughaway, and later on get the refund in the form of a second voucher?

pinniped

The guy at BWI is definitely wrong. But instead of fighting it, just complete your transaction and walk away. You'll be able to use the voucher.

He's confusing the fact that you need to be the one redeeming the voucher with the name on the ticket paid for by the voucher.

In other words, on UA, you have your nonrefundable $1800 or $2700 ticket in hand with you as the traveler. You must cancel it by midnight the day of travel. You do not need to rebook a flight at that time. Just call UA and cancel it. Note your ticket number - not just the PNR. (Note the long number beginning with 016 or whatever...)

The first ticket you switch to must have you as the traveler.
The residual voucher you get will have your name on it. This is also where UA collects its change fee. To answer zlc's question, you could buy full Y at this point but it still won't get you around the change fee hit you'll take on the original nonrefundable ticket.

You must use the residual voucher - you cannot just give it away.
The second ticket you buy (using the voucher) can be for travel for anyone.

The residual voucher you get after that should have the traveler's name on it and text on the voucher stating "ALSO VALID FOR <YOU>."

Repeat until voucher is exhausted. At any given point in time, the residual voucher can be taken to the airport by either you or by the last person for whom you ticketed from the voucher.

If you are at the airport, look on the voucher for that "ALSO VALID FOR <YOU>" line item. If it's not put there automatically, they definitely can print it with that on there.

I did all of this and did not book any throwaway tickets. I'm not sure why people are doing this unless they really can't find any use for a flight within a year. I got my full $2850 or so in value out of my ticket. UA hosed up my first switch so badly that the agent at MCI gave me a break and did not deduct the initial $150 change fee from me.

Happy

Possible. You can try this approach, but bear in mind, a refundable ticket would not be a cheapie in most cases. If it does not work the way you hope, you will be out of luck.

Another thing to bear in mind, UA travel credit is Not Refundable, once it is used to purchase a ticket, even if you cancel the new purchase, you dont get the Travel Credit back. i.e. I am not sure if you will get a second voucher as you are using a travel credit to buy the refundable ticket. You may, be able to change the refundable ticket to something else without paying ticket change fee. I am not even too sure about that.

You want to do some search in UA forum to make sure, as in any case it is a very tricky approach.

Happy

Thanks for posting. Excellent input of data point.

You get a lucky break on the waiver of $150!

Was it a UA station or a UAX station that you did the re-ticketing? How did they mess up? Was it because they did not know how to split the PNR?
From what I understand, if each ticket has its own PNR, it is a simple process.

smcgrath12

For CO (and I am no expert), I have a non-refundable ticket. I booked it on 25-Feb-2009. The travel dates on the ticket are Nov 18 to Nov 24 2009. It is in my name and it is international going to GUA.

I would like to cancel it and use the ticket for my wife and kid. Can I do it online? From my understanding, I can only use the cancelled ticket in my name. I found a throw-away fare for SAT-IAH for 08/21 for $61 (which I don't intend to travel on). So, I can cancel the original ticket, pay $150 in change fee and buy the $61 ticket in my name. After that the remaining balance will be issued to me as a voucher which can then be used for my wife and kid. Can I do all this online or do I have to call? Also, what will be the expiration date on the issued voucher if I cancel and book the $61 fare today? Thanks.

PS: I see 2 buttons when I pull my reservation. One is "Cancel" and the other is "Change flights". Which one do I use?

(I posted this Q on CO OP, but nobody replied, I should have posted it here anyways as this is TY points related).

Happy

No, CO does not work the same way as UA or AA, because it uses E-Cert.

There is also no need to book a throw-away. The only time a person has to resort to booking a throw-away is because near the 1 year mark he still cannot take a trip, hence, in order to preserve the value, a throw-away is used. I honestly dont know why people have the notion of booking a throw-away is part of the process.

How to handle CO tickets have been posted many times, and I have given a specific run down of the whole steps, augmented by others' posts in the past. A search in this forum by POST, not by thread, may have turned up all the info you need.

In fact, the FIRST post of this very thread already provides basic information that you are obviously not aware of.

Please do search first to get an understand, as all the pertinent information has been posted multiple times, even in easy format of Steps 123. It is getting very tiresome to repost again and again the same steps.

This thread at this stage should be used by posting NEW Data Points, i.e. Data Points that are not there in the past, or are contrary to what are known, such as the erroneous treatment by the UA agent at BWI.

smcgrath12