law dawg

I wouldn't, necessarily. A lot of the people in charge come from non-aviation backgrounds. Add to that their insulation from the realities of the job and a lot of the front-liners get frustrated because there is some "Ivory Tower" thinking.

What's a DO?

sd9121

Just go with NetJet - no hassle, no TSA - no need to complain on this forum anymore. It really isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Aaaaahhh...the freedom to take off your shoes.

bocastephen

A gathering of Flyertalkers for a social or business event. For example, the recent CO DO (the 3rd) where about 500 people convened in Houston for a weekend of social gatherings, focus groups and presentations with Continental executives, and special behind-the-scenes tours - a few of which would probably give someone in DHS management a stroke if they knew about them

ND Sol

You talk about all the spooky things going on, give this as an example and then say it was hypothetical? Just goes to show that all these "spooky" things are not as spooky as you are trying to lead us to believe. In fact, they are not spooky at all.

law dawg

Ah! Got you.

Yeah, that might be a good idea.

law dawg

I used it hypothetically - as in, it's creepy, but not a crime. And personally, the stuff I read and heard about was worse than this hypothetical example.

But still not against the law.

sinanju

And by sitting at the back of coach, they'd always be behind the bad guys with all of them in view, no matter what the plan is. If somebody's trying to get into the front office, the reinforced doors are there to slow them down until the FAM can assume control of the situation. I don't understand how an easily identified FAM (and, yes, despite all the claims to the contrary, they are easily identified) has a tactical advantage by having the bad guys behind their back.

The real reason is that the plane is like an office environment for the FAM. The office jerk is stealing your nice chair while you're out of your cubicle.

law dawg

Sit in the back of a plane someday (especially the larger ones) and tell me if you honestly think you could get to the front if you needed to. Especially with all the people who will certainly be running AWAY from what's happening up front (ie-TOWARD the back). It wouldn't happen. Many hijackings have been completely done before the people on the other side were even aware something was going on.

Hell, you can't even hear that much of what's going on in other sections.

Well, based upon your line of thinking, they're still another obstacle they have to overcome, which means even more time.

If the FAMS were run the way the guys I know would like, you would have a much harder time picking them out. They would be switching seats (not always in same spots), no pre-boards, etc.

Again, this is a problem of implementation, not principle.

The real reason for what, exactly? The hostility toward FAMs or the reason why FAMs sit where they sit?

Unimatrix One

Yes, of course FAMs should always be in first class, because terrorists such as, for example, Richard Reid, are always in F. Oh, wait.........

Oh, I know: the Middle Easterners on that flight who were suspected of conspiring to build a bomb inside the lavatory. They were all in FC too, right? Oh, wait.....

Well, at least it's a good thing the FAMs are always in F (where everyone knows they usually are, thereby giving anyone who wants to evade or attack them a tactical advantage), because there is certainly nothing harmful that any terrorist could do in coach.

I mean, it's not like we even have reinforced cockpit doors to protect the pilots if a FAM isn't in F. Oh, wait....

law dawg

On any mission you have to list your areas of responsibility. Your tactics and positioning will be predicated upon those responsibilities combined with manpower, equipment, etc.

You act based upon what you're there to do, in other words. And the more people you have, the more you can do.

FAMs don't generally have a lot of manpower, as has been noted ad nauseum. So, the maximize what they can do by prioritizing. Think of it as triage, in a way. You deal with big problems first, and manageable problems even higher on the priority list.

The plane blowing up is a big problem, but not a manageable one for the FAMs. The can't telepathically predict where the bomb will be or where it will be put together at so they can sit next to it. It's a big plane.

The plane being used as a missile is also a problem. They CAN predict where the bad guys will need to be to pull that off (flight deck). So, if the thing they are going to protect is up front, that's where they will need to be. Not far away, but close. The position of FC is irrelevant. If the airlines moved FC to the back, FAMs would still be up front. FC in a 747 is in the nose, under the flight deck. Strangely enough, FAMs don't fly there.

ND Sol

Yes, it is unfortunate that they have to suffer Business Class on the 747's.

law dawg

And the award for Most Obviously Missing the Point so They Can Stick to Their Agenda goes to........

It has nothing to do with "suffer" and has everything to do with positioning to the object they are to guard. Which, of course, you knew was the point of my post, you just chose to ignore it.

That great politics......

ND Sol

And you missed the point. Your post gave the impression that FAM's had to slum it by not being in international FC, when in actuality they are flying in Business Class (a seat that goes for thousands of dollars), which is better than domestic FC.

SDF_Traveler

In reference to the 747, some carriers have Economy Class seating on the upper deck.

However, they're not US carriers. I've seen this several times on non-US carriers; I recall it being the case last time I flew KE within Asia on one of their 747-400s - I believe this was their regional config. When doing trans-Pac on KE, upper deck has always been business.

law dawg

I gave that impression? What verbiage did I use to imply that, if you please?

Maybe the problem is the voice you're listening with, not with what I'm saying.