ND Sol

First, that is certainly not a sign of a dry run, and it is hard to fathom that as a probe either. I believe the gesture you are referring to is most commonly used in the film industry to signify cut or stop and by many others to denote to be quiet. That's the problem with these "creepy" issues - too many see a terrorist behind every log while there is a logical non-terrorism answer to these "incidents."

FWAAA

Agree 100%.

But if all you gots is a hammer, it's easy to imagine everyone looking like a nail.

law dawg

Really? If I walked up to where you were sitting in your seat on a plane, looked you in the eye and then did the gesture, and kept on moving down the aisle doing the same thing to everyone, what would the reasonable explanation be? Are we on a movie set or on an airplane?

Occam's Razor, my friend.

law dawg

And some people are so convinced that nothing will ever happen to them they just walk around with their head in the sand.

I've came across many, many of these people in my career. It's always a little sad to see their world-view crushed beyond repair. Often that's worse than the physical/property damage they suffer. They so want you to make it not be happening, but you can't.

"Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya."

If you keep your head in the sand, they won't see you. Or you can just trust to blind luck and the odds. Me, I like to be a little more pro-active and make decisions that can positively affect my life and it's outcome.

But hey, to each their own.

ralfp

Occams Razor tells me that (in this case) you are suffering from a mental illness and need psychiatric help; that this has nothing to do with terrorism.

law dawg

Ha! Shows what you know. I have psychotic powers.

But back to your post-

Anyone who just ignores someone walking up to them on a plane (hell, anywhere else, for that matter) and making such a gesture deserves whatever happens to them.

Read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. It's pretty good layman talk about violence, it's precursors and one's reactions before, during and after any event.

To ignore signals is the human equivalent of - "Baaaaaa!"

bocastephen

I agree - but if you did such a probe and the unwitting target jumped up and slammed your or another 'tester's' head through the bag bin, who would take responsibility for that?

Perhaps there is a way to test how things would go down in real life. Given the propensity for the Gov't to spend money like they actually print it, I might design the following scenario:

Charter a commercial flight, tell crew and passengers they will participate in a 'scenario' (without telling them its security related), then conduct a mock hijacking or attack on the cabin and see how passengers and crew actually react - these very realistic drills are done on the ground for other types of emergencies and are quite effective at pinpointing weaknesses and setting expectations. If I was running the show over there, I would be doing this fairly frequently and mining the results for very useful data.

law dawg

If I was the slammer I would be able to articulate to any authority that, due to the universal nature of the gesture combined with the nature of my environment (airplane) I felt threatened and therefore took measures to defend myself. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to wait to be attacked to strike yourself.

I agree 1000000000%. I think it's an excellent idea.

Of course, like all training, it's artificial because they know SOMETHING will happen, which puts them on alert, which mitigates shock as a factor in both response nature and time. That said, I think it's a wonderful idea (given appropriate safety precautions, blah, blah) and can give us a pretty good idea of what would happen. At least the best available.

Well done!

bocastephen

I would hope the prober, if conscious, would at least say 'this was a test' before I was hauled off


To your knowledge, has anyone in DHS, TSA or FAM management ever sat down and planned out such a scenario, or contacted the airlines to see who would be willing to participate? If not, I'm abit surprised, to be honest.

I would almost guarantee passenger altetrness would be muted if the flight was long enough and no one knew the circumstances around what was being tested. If I was planning such a test, I would probably choose either a morning or evening flight that was at least a few hours, and begin the drill at a distracting time, such as when meals are being eaten or a movie is being shown - at that point, the thought of 'what's going to happen' won't be at the forefront of anyones' mind. Crew will be serving or resting and passengers will be distracted.

Having said that, and assuming the drills would become semi-frequent, I would begin the scenario at different times to see how people react when guarded vs. unguarded, and see if there is any difference in the result.

ND Sol

So what happened to the "slasher"?

Unimatrix One

Yes, and it's a good thing they're almost always in first class, since we all know terrorists would never be in coach.

bocastephen

You and the other DHS/TSA/FAM posters and lurkers have my permission and encouragement to bring this concept up to your management - perhaps they will buy into it, although I would be somewhat surprised if they didn't think of it already.

We could even make a FT DO around one of the test trips - then we can all compare theories in a real world scenario

law dawg

To my knowledge, no. I think the front-line people would be interested in the results, because they would need to factor that into their training (from what I've heard they do, but it's a best-guess reaction), which could positively or negatively affect their performance.

You may have a point here. Length of time is certainly a factor in alertness. You can only be "switched on" for so long before burn-out occurs.

Another great idea!

law dawg

What slasher? My example was hypothetical.

In my wishful thinking, if something like this did happen, someone would knock his a$$ out.

I'd pay to see that.....

law dawg

Well, it depends:

What is their mission?

Take over the plane? You need some up front, some in middle and some in back?

Get into flight deck? Need to be up front.

So, given the mission of the FAMS as I understand it, their tactical positioning is based upon not letting planes being used as missiles. The mission dictates tactics, not the other way around.