chollie

Makes my head hurt even worse when I realize that every single TDC is free to make up any rules s/he wants about what is acceptable ID.

TWA884

Folks,

The subject of this thread is RealID requirements and specifically which state-issued identification documents are accepted by the TSA.

Please stay on topic (FT Rule 5).

If you wish to discuss screener discretion or whether identification documents are required for domestic travel in the United States, please start a new thread.

Thank you for understanding,

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

Dubai Stu

Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce and interstate flights seem to be absolutely in that power. In the 1940s the US Supreme Court ruled that Congress had the right to regulate airplane flight and that it preempts the right of the person who owns the air over flown once the flight is over X feet (don't remember the exact height). United States v Causby, 328 U.S. 256 (1946).The US Supreme Court has also ruled that interstate ferry service is controlled by Congress's commerce power. Gibbons v Ogden, 22 U.S. 1 (1824). I don't see how your right to travel between states would preempt federal regulation of airports.

I frankly can't think of a better case for Congressional regulation than airports. Even Canada with its stronger nod to provincial rights has put airline security under federal authority.

<deleted by moderator>.

My personal belief is that if you are in a non-real ID state, just get a passport card and be done with it (my understanding is that a Green Card is also Real-ID compliant).

With respect to the requirement of flying without an ID, my understanding is that TSA rules split the difference between people who can't produce acceptable ID and those who won't. The mugged passenger would obviously be in camp B. I flew many years ago without ID because I left my driver's license in my suit jacket. I had taken it out to get into a federal building and didn't put it back in my wallet, returned home, changed, packed, and mindlessly went to the airport. After a very tough frisk and being asked some background information I was permitted to fly just fine.

For the record, I am not a fan of the REAL-ID Act, but it is here to stay. We have a huge disconnect between the requirement under REAL-ID that you have to have lawful immigration status in the US (with your license expiring the day your visa does) and the fact that many visas have temporary extensions if the Government delays processing your paperwork within the time allowed. State motor vehicle divisions, however, rarely extend the license in this period. Further, when a visa expires you can often have ninety days to pack up and go home. During that time period, you don't have a valid license, and the stamps in your passport may show you are out of status. I think REAL-ID never thought out this issue and has caused a number of lawful immigrants a huge amount of problems. That said, it is the law of the land.

What we don't know with the waivers is how much a state has moved towards its goal and what the weaknesses are in their identity vetting systems.

TWA884

Reminder!

Cityflyer10

NYS now seems to offer realid compliant ID. Looking through the document requirements, it seems it’s easier to get a passport than one of the new IDs. Bizarre!

rpjs

Indeed. I recently naturalized as a US citizen and immediately applied for a passport and then when I got it to upgrade my NYS driver's license to an "enhanced" one. Getting the passport was far easier - just send in my naturalization certificate through a post office. To get the EDL I had to go to the DMV with my new passport, actual social security card (even though I had to provide that to my original license in the first place) and proof of address.

König

I remember back in 2009, it was also very hard to get a WA enhanced DL. Only select DOL offices in the state accepted applications, so they naturally had long lines there. The closest DOL office to me was in Spokane (1.5 hrs drive), and I tried to apply 3 times, but every time the wait time would me more than 4 hours, so I gave up each time. I already had a passport card, so I did not have to get an EDL -- it was more like a quest for me (being a document/ID geek and all), which I failed miserably

Loose Cannon

Being denied the right to travel.
Perhaps a rehash of the John Gilmore case particularly if someone is unable to fly AND is not offered secondary screening in lieu of producing ID.

N1120A

REAL ID violates full faith and credit and state sovereignty. That is why they always extend the deadline. If individuals don't sue, the states will. Instituting the technology is actually expensive.

König

So far, it seems that states are caving in to the DHS regarding the REAL ID. Under Trump, the DHS became bolder and more assertive, so I think they will finally get their way in fully implementing the REAL ID. For example, during the 2017 legislative session, Oregon State Assembly passed a law creating a two-tiered system for driver's licenses just to give people a choice between REAL ID-compliant licenses and regular ones. The implementation cost is offset by additional fees on these "enhanced" licenses.

phltraveler

NYS makes you go in person to get a REAL ID.

REAL ID requirements require proof of primary residence - passport doesn't.

I don't get why NY is so crazy on this, but if you have a New York Driver's license issued in 2002 or later, you only need to show your original social security card if you don't have a federal/NY state tax return (another option is a paystub) that lists your SSN in full.

As far as the passport, your naturalization certificate would have sufficed, or for a US citizen born on US soil, the birth certificate would be fine too.

Proof of address is part of the REAL ID requirements. Traditional drivers licenses usually permitted them to list mailing addresses, REAL ID compliant documentation (and enhanced drivers license) have to list the primary residence. Having to prove the residence is an obvious way to prevent people from listing an address that they don't really reside at.

petaluma1

That only stops law-abiding citizens. If a person with ill intentions seriously wants to get a REAL ID, it can be done.

wesmills

Even this can get hazy. In Washington State, you have to show proof of residence to get your first Enhanced Driver License, though it can be mailed wherever you like. Subsequent to receiving it, your actual plastic card can show an out-of-date address where you no longer live because the Washington Department of Licensing doesn't require that you get a new license when your address changes. All you have to do is log on to the DOL's web site and update your address for $free.00 and opt to not receive a new card. My EDL was, at one point, two addresses out of date because I moved twice during its validity period.

Toshbaf

A wiki might be nice as either the 10/2018 or 10/2020 deadlines approach.

Here's what I know. American Samoa driver's licenses will not be acceptable starting February 5, 2018 per press release of 1/19/2018. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/01/19/...id-enforcement It is possible that there might be some delays and leeway (or no leeway) until May 6, 2018 because DHS says the TSA will provide assistance, whatever that is. American Samoa becomes the first territory or state that the driver's license is no good to fly.

New York driver's licenses issued October 30, 2017 and later are accepted as are enhanced driver's licenses. Driver's licenses that are not enhanced and issued before 10/30/17 will not be allowable to fly as of October 1, 2020.

Washington state enhanced driver's license are Real ID compliant. Non-enhanced ones are not and are usable to fly until October 10, 2018 but it is expected to be enforced as of October 1, 2020. Washington state has no plans to become compliant, asking people to get enhanced driver's licenses. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/washington and Passport to fly domestically? What Washington residents need to know | KIRO-TV

California is up against the same deadlines as Washington state, technically October 10, 2018 but practically October 1, 2020. California does not have enhanced driver's licenses.

The cheapest way if from a non-compliant state seems to be:
1. passport, if you already have one and need one for travel. Extra costs: none, because you already have a passport.
2. enhanced driver's license (only a few states, such as WA, MN, MI, NY, VT). WA state is $24 more expensive than a regular driver's license, good for 6 years
3. NEXUS card $50 (good for at least 5 years, up to 5 year, 11 months). An interview has to be done at a NEXUS office, located only in areas near the Canadian border.
4. Passport card $55 (good for 10 years), $30 if you apply with passport application. Applying with a passport application is the cheapest per year solution if you don't want to carry a passport.
5. Global Entry card $100 (good for 5 years)
6. Passport $110 + $25 if the first time applying or lost expired passport

Toshbaf

The cheapest way varies by state.
In New York, the cheapest way is probably to get a re-issued driver's license if yours is issued before October 30, 2017.
In Washington state, the cheapest is to pay an additional $24 for an enhanced driver's license upon renewal or you can upgrade your license to enhanced for a fee calculated by $4 x years left on the driver's license.
In California, the cheapest way is to get a driver's license issued after January 22, 2018 and specify that you want a Real ID compliant license

In the end, I think most states will issue either a Real ID compliant card or allow people to choose a Real ID driver's license for no additional fee. Washington state will be one of the few that will probably not have a Real ID compliant driver's license except for a more expensive enhanced driver's license.