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New variation of the "name game?"
At FLL earlier today, the ID checker asked me "where are you going?" "Home," I said. "Where's that?" she asked. "Am I required to discuss my travel plans with you?" I replied.
Scribble scribble scribble and I was on my way. Anyone else see this at FLL or elsewhere? And yes it was systematic and not just small talk. I saw other victims receive the same treatment. |
Yes, I have been asked by a TSO about my destination/purpose for traveling before. He noted that my boarding pass said DEN-ATL, and asked what I was going to Atlanta for. My reply was, "To catch a connecting flight." He then asked whether my trip was business or personal, to which my reply was, "Are we through here?". Commence the ten-second staredown where the TSO waits to see if you'll crack, then he scratched down the Scribbles of Security(TM) and sent me on my way.
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"where are you going?"
To a plane "No, to what city" I'm sorry, "out of an abundance of caution" and "for security reasons" I don't discuss my travel plans with strangers. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 18764230)
I just looked over the article, and it does not make any mention whatsoever of flying, airports, TSA, or anything related to such matters. Therefore, using it to prove that Americans don't know what is going on at airport security checkpoints makes no sense.
But, I didn't use the article "to prove that Americans don't know what is going on at airport security checkpoints." |
Originally Posted by janetdoe
(Post 18745300)
AFAIK, the only time the "requiring ID to travel" was challenged (in Gilmore v. Gonzales), the Supreme Court affirmed the requirement to show ID only because there was an alternative in place, the option to undergo secondary screening in lieu of showing ID. According to the TSA, that is no longer an option, so I think is is about time for someone to re-challenge the ID requirement.
(Well, "never" is too strong: there was a brief period when refusing to show an ID, as opposed to not having one, would be grounds for denial.) |
Originally Posted by RichardKenner
(Post 18766000)
There is no requirement to show ID. The TSA has never claimed otherwise. Many people fly each day from any large airport without showing ID.
(Well, "never" is too strong: there was a brief period when refusing to show an ID, as opposed to not having one, would be grounds for denial.) This, IMO, is effectively the same as requiring ID. |
Originally Posted by ScatterX
(Post 18766093)
In practical terms, the requirement is to show ID or subject yourself to an unknown type and amount of harassment at the hands of a government employee. Remember Phil?
This, IMO, is effectively the same as requiring ID. |
I wrote about this in another thread.
As near as I can tell, it's a power trip by the TDC trying to play cop. You don't have to answer them and they relent pretty easily when you push back. This kind of mission creep is exactly the problem many of us have with all of the seemingly minor and petty requirements that keep piling up. Next, they'll start asking the purpose of our trip and who we were visiting. That's a far cry from an "administrative" search for weapons, which is the judicial rationale for suspending the 4th Amendment in the first place. |
It's none of their business where I'm travelling to or why I am going there .
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This is what I drafted today to send to IAH. I am worried, however, that by sending this I'll get myself some kind of retaliation, whether a fine for "lying" last week or placement on some sort of watch list.
On the one hand, that makes me question whether it's really worth it to raise a stink. On the other, it would seem that's precisely the reason I should go through with this, because shadowy security procedures and petty retaliation against my constitutional rights - speech, petition of grievances, warrantless search, self-incrimination - is the whole point about why I think this stuff is so bad and why I feel so strongly about it. Advice and feedback is appreciated. If anyone has any suggestions on who else to copy on this, I'd appreciate it. Unfortunately, IAH is in Sheila Jackson Lee's district, so she would likely be openly antagonistic to my plight given her past support for TSA as some kind of jobs program for the underclass and fodder for government unions. Ms. Ann Testa Federal Director of Security Bush Intercontinental Airport 2800 North Terminal Road Houston, Texas 77032 June 16, 2012 Dear Ms. Testa, As a former resident of Houston who still owns a business there, I am a frequent traveler through Bush Airport (“IAH”) and have recently noticed that it is now routine for TSA agents at IAH, and less frequently, at other airports, to ask passengers to verbally speak their first and last names upon entering security checkpoints at all terminals. While I have never refused to answer the question about my name, whenever I have questioned the appropriateness or purpose of this request, I have found that the inquiring agents are quick to take offense and threaten me with the denial of access to the checkpoint, thus preventing me from traveling that day, and insist that the request is standard policy and cannot be refused. Furthermore, on more than one occasion I have been told that the rationale and authority behind this policy is “classified” and thus cannot be shared with me and that if the name I speak does not “match” the name on the boarding pass, despite the presentation of valid identification that matches my boarding pass, I also may not enter the checkpoint. This happened to me on June 8 of this year when an agent at Bush Airport, and subsequently, her supervisor, Ms. __________, refused to grant me access to a checkpoint because the name I spoke to them did not “match” the name on my boarding pass and identification. The purpose of this letter, therefore, is to ask the following questions of you: 1.) Are passengers required, in fact, to verbally speak their names to enter the checkpoint? 2.) May I refuse to comply with this request and still be admitted to the checkpoint? 3.) By what authority is TSA making this request? Is this policy indeed “classified”? 4.) Why does Houston Bush Intercontinental Airport have differing security requirements than other airports? Is Bush Intercontinental Airport a greater security risk than other American airports? 5.) What is TSA attempting to accomplish by making this request? How is security enhanced by this practice? 6.) How does an individual TSA agent “know” how an individual may pronounce his or her own name? How is security enhanced if the agent refuses to admit a passenger who pronounces his name differently than how the agent thinks it should be pronounced, even if the passenger presents a valid form of photo identification that matches the name printed on the boarding pass? 7.) What are the consequences, in terms of additional required security procedures, if any, by refusing this request? 8.) What is the rationale of these additional security procedures? Considering that other airports do not make this request nearly as often – or at all - compared to IAH and seem to have no noticeably higher incidence of security breaches or risk to public safety, it would seem that stating one’s own name does not add to the cumulative level of security at IAH and thus additional procedures would not be needed. In that case, are these additional procedures, if any, actually necessary or are they simply retaliatory in nature for not complying with the agent’s original request? Your assistance with these questions is very much appreciated. I would ask that when you respond, please respond in writing, on letterhead, with answers to each of these questions. If it is indeed the case that stating one’s name is voluntary, I plan to use your letter as justification to the inquiring agent for refusing this request whenever I encounter it in the future. If you cannot respond to me and answer these questions in the manner I am requesting, I would appreciate a written explanation, again, on letterhead, as to why you cannot answer, and a referral to the appropriate federal official who is able to answer these questions. Given that the “state your name” policy occurs most prominently at IAH than any other American airport, I would presume that in your capacity as the federal director of security for IAH, you yourself are indeed the proper person to answer these questions. Thank you in advance for your response. My personal mailing address is included below. Best Regards, It really makes me sad that I even have to worry about this. |
When I'm asked about where I'm going, I respond with the gate number. That's always been good enough but I'd tell them the stuff that's already on the boarding pass.
Whether it's business or pleasure, final destination or connection is only my business. |
Originally Posted by cottonmather0
(Post 18766874)
It really makes me sad that I even have to worry about this.
IMO, there is nothing to gain by sending this letter to anyone in the TSA or HSD. If you get a response at all, it will be a form letter about how they have a mandate to keep us safe and the procedures they use are SSI. In other words, FO. I suggest that you are better off going to the IG to challenge the claim this is "classified" as well as threatening you/retaliation for questioning that statement. |
I would add to your question about the classification to ask what level it is classified and who is the classifying authority.
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Ugh. While I'm really looking forward to taking some much needed time off from work next month and visiting friends in PHX again I'm dreading dealing with the TSA. Thankfully the TSA at my small podunk hometown airport is actually quite friendly and efficient (IME at least) but I'm not looking forward dealing when them when I leave PHX or if I have to go through security at ORD. I've never flown through there but it looks like both flights go out of the same terminal so I shouldn't.
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Looks like either a BDO playing SPOT, BDO wannabe and/or they're taking a page out of what's been going on in BOS for some time and when I have been asked this nonsense, I call the TSO out on it by asking them point blank if they are A BDO.
Variation 1: Me: Are you a BDO TSO: Yes Me: Are you using the SPOT techniques you were taught in your 2 week course? You know the Israelis train their BDO's for a year to 18 months before their BDO's get put out on the line. (and then I wait for the-deer-in-the-headlights-speechless-look ;)) Variation 2: Me: Are you a BDO? TSO: No Me: Then why are you asking me these questions as only a trained BDO is supposed to be doing this. (and then I wait for the-deer-in-the-headlights-speechless-look ;)) |
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