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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Requirement for speaking your name? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1398391-requirement-speaking-your-name.html)

dimramon Jun 11, 2012 5:00 pm


Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 18729899)
There is no way 99% of TSA types know the correct pronunciation of my last name. That's because 99% of people out there don't know without being told and/or practicing for at least a while. I've even made that a point when faced with this.

TDC: State/Pronounce your name
N1120A: What's the point, you can't say it anyway?



Was this an older (probably in his 70s), white-haired 3 striper? If so, I know who you are talking about and agree that he was fantastic. Unfortunately, he retired about a year ago.

This was about a month ago at the international terminal.
3-striper was older gentleman.

cynicAAl Jun 11, 2012 6:25 pm

the NameGame continues... SNA yesterday morning.

TSO: state your name
me: it's right there on 2 documents in your hand, can't you read ?
TSO: I need you to tell me your name
me: nickname stated (the shortened informal version or my first name only)
TSO: (states my full first and middle name)
me: that sounds familiar
me: I'm enjoying playing security theater with you, but how is this remotely relevant to aviation security ?
TSO next to my TSO: they make us ask it
my TSO: yeah, they make us say it
me: that's a cute story, but it doesn't answer my question.
TSO: have a nice flight.

So, you can board a plane without stating your name....

studentff Jun 11, 2012 7:26 pm


Originally Posted by zitsky (Post 18738486)
We still have the ability to seek redress for wrongs done to us by TSA or others.

Tell that to any one of numerous Americans who has been victims of the no-fly-list and gotten the runaround from DHS/TSA.

The ability to "seek redress" is irrelevant if the request merely disappears into a black hole of bureaucracy. Only if there is the ability to escalate the redress to an open court room with real due process protections does redress matter.

These innocent victims range from people who have been merely delayed to those who have missed flights/meetings to those who have been delayed and harassed by law enforcement to those who have attempted to seek redress and been lied to and misled to those who have actually sued, yet at every step the government attempts to block the suits on trumped up national security grounds.

Just recently a native-born US citizen was forced to *walk* back into the US from Mexico because of the no-fly-list. ( http://www.theblaze.com/stories/told...r-u-s-on-foot/ ) The government, of course, declines to comment on the case.

Wally Bird Jun 11, 2012 8:05 pm


Originally Posted by zitsky (Post 18738486)
We still have the ability to seek redress for wrongs done to us by TSA or others.

How's that work? Do tell.

Wally Bird Jun 11, 2012 8:08 pm


Originally Posted by cynicAAl (Post 18739425)
TSO next to my TSO: they make us ask it
my TSO: yeah, they make us say it

Not all TSA employees drink the Koolaid apparently ^ .

Pesky Monkey Jun 11, 2012 10:35 pm


Originally Posted by WilcoRoger (Post 18736908)
How should Finnish curling-world champion and MP, Mr Uuspaavalniemi pronounce his name to be let through? Or ex-Prime Minister Mrs Jäätteenmäki, whom even the BBC News called "Mrs Unpronounciable"?

Denied boading of course. That's the brilliance of our system.

cbn42 Jun 11, 2012 10:51 pm

If you believe that being asked to show ID at an airport is oppressive, then how about at a traffic stop? You could be pulled over for something completely trivial or even imaginary, or you could be in an accident where you weren't at fault, and you need to show ID and it will be recorded in a database. Does this practice also increase the risk of genocide down the road?

cbn42 Jun 11, 2012 10:53 pm


Originally Posted by Pesky Monkey (Post 18740679)
Actually one killed by getting a parliament to suspend an inconvenient constitution. The other kills people via drones to avoid the problem of an inconvenient constitution.

What do drones have to do with showing ID?

If the TSA stopped asking for ID at a checkpoint, would that hurt the government's ability to deploy drones?

Pesky Monkey Jun 11, 2012 10:59 pm


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 18740708)
What do drones have to do with showing ID?

If the TSA stopped asking for ID at a checkpoint, would that hurt the government's ability to deploy drones?

The Thread's about pronouncing your name, not showing ID.

RichardKenner Jun 12, 2012 8:49 am


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 18740706)
If you believe that being asked to show ID at an airport is oppressive, then how about at a traffic stop? You could be pulled over for something completely trivial or even imaginary, or you could be in an accident where you weren't at fault, and you need to show ID and it will be recorded in a database.

In that case, you're not showing "ID", but fulfulling the original purpose of the license, namely granting permission to drive a vehicle on public roads. It's long been the practice of government that they have a right to ask somebody to prove they have the appropriate license whether flying a plane, driving, piloting a boat, hunting, or fishing.

The problem is when a license to drive a car is being used outside that narrow purpose, as a more general "ID".

RunsWithScissors Jun 12, 2012 11:37 am

The OP was about using a fake name, and in my opinion, provoking the TSA.

GUWonder Jun 12, 2012 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by RunsWithScissors (Post 18743647)
The OP was about using a fake name, and in my opinion, provoking the TSA.

Try again, but it must be noted that repeated failure is the way of Team TSA and its fans.

janetdoe Jun 12, 2012 3:49 pm


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 18725719)
If the purpose of the question is to determine whether the passenger is commiting the crime of using a fake ID, then the only appropriate answer is "I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that the answer may incriminate me". You cannot be forced to answer a question asked for the purpose of using that answer to determine whether or not you committed a crime whether you are guilty or innocent of that crime.

I've actually used this, and it worked. The document checker was a little incredulous, "Asking your name is an incriminating question?!?" but his supervisor seemed to think it wasn't worth hassling me over.


Originally Posted by RunsWithScissors (Post 18743647)
The OP was about using a fake name, and in my opinion, provoking the TSA.

Yes, using a fake name instead of refusing to play the game is an strange choice. But then again, forcing people to show ID to travel internally within the country is an odd choice, and forcing people to 'pronounce' their name in order to travel is utterly bizarre. And by "odd" and "bizarre", I mean characteristic of totalitarian governments, and most likely, unconstitutional.

AFAIK, the only time the "requiring ID to travel" was challenged (in Gilmore v. Gonzales), the Supreme Court affirmed the requirement to show ID only because there was an alternative in place, the option to undergo secondary screening in lieu of showing ID. According to the TSA, that is no longer an option, so I think is is about time for someone to re-challenge the ID requirement.

FliesWay2Much Jun 12, 2012 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by RunsWithScissors (Post 18743647)
The OP was about using a fake name, and in my opinion, provoking the TSA.

Since there is no requirement to pronounce one's name as the letters spell out phonetically in English there is no such thing as a "fake name."

TheStinger Jun 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Watch any European football match and listen to a different number of English speaking commentators trying to pronounce Eastern European names and you will hear at least three different ways of saying their names, especially the longer ones.


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