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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Requirement for speaking your name? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1398391-requirement-speaking-your-name.html)

stifle Oct 27, 2012 3:50 am


Originally Posted by Vidiot (Post 19573084)
Not to derail from an already-derailed thread, but as far as I know the big-box warehouse-club-type stores include compliance with receipt checks as part of their membership agreements. (I know my Costco membership agreement includes this, but I haven't checked terms for BJ's, Sam's, etc.)

I certainly don't comply with receipt checks in any other store (Best Buy people, especially, get really agitated and have come close to threatening or assaulting me) but I do play along at Costco since I've already agreed to.

Seeing as we're already derailed... most Australian stores have a notice up saying "it is a condition of entry that you present your bags for inspection on leaving the store".

cottonmather0 Oct 27, 2012 7:24 am


Originally Posted by stifle (Post 19574177)
Seeing as we're already derailed... most Australian stores have a notice up saying "it is a condition of entry that you present your bags for inspection on leaving the store".

In the U.S., for what it's worth, that kind of a sign is unenforceable in most jurisdictions if the store is a public accommodation.

As the poster who originally brought up Costco correctly points out, the reason they can get away with it there is that it's technically a private club and you've already agreed to it when you signed the membership agreement.

UshuaiaHammerfest Oct 27, 2012 10:48 am


Originally Posted by Penntraveler2001 (Post 19572101)
The agents at SFO ask for your name. It was explained to me that the agents are required to ask for the passenger's name as this is a requirement of the independent security company that manages the SFO gates (I only fly United out of SFO, so I don't know if the other terminals do the same). I have a number of issues with this.

...

2) Major concern that there is no consistency across all airports with the way that the TSA handles security checkpoints. All checkpoints should be handled exactly the same to ensure proper procedures are followed and that the checkpoint is in fact secure.

...

I love this response and will use it: "out of an abundance of caution and for security reasons, I don't say my name in public while traveling". Looking forward to see what the TSA has to say next time I fly.


I fly out of SFO a lot, but usually T2, and they do the same thing there. The only times I've pushed back on this demand I was threatened with "DYWFT," but that was a few years ago. I complained to a supervisor afterward and then was threatened with the "give me your boarding pass so we can document this" shake down.

While I agree with your point #2 above, the TSA's argument is that inconsistent security (or "unpredictable" as they call it) makes it harder to find the holes. I think in actuality annoying and inconveniencing the traveling public is all it accomplishes.

When you try your response at SFO, would be great if you'd follow up and post what happens. The name game bothers me but I've typically just found it more fun to read my name off my boarding pass in an obvious manner. I'd certainly love to have other options in case I get bored of that one.

cynicAAl Oct 27, 2012 12:43 pm


Originally Posted by Vidiot (Post 19573084)
Not to derail from an already-derailed thread, but as far as I know the big-box warehouse-club-type stores include compliance with receipt checks as part of their membership agreements. (I know my Costco membership agreement includes this, but I haven't checked terms for BJ's, Sam's, etc.)

I certainly don't comply with receipt checks in any other store (Best Buy people, especially, get really agitated and have come close to threatening or assaulting me) but I do play along at Costco since I've already agreed to.

you're correct that the Costco membership policy states that "receipts will be checked as you exit the store", so it's perfectly legal for them to ask for my receipt. There's also no law that requires my compliance, so I smile, offer a "no thanks" and keep walking. It's not like they can detain me for simply declining their receipt check. I have no problem if other people volunteer their receipts, even if it slows me down a bit, but I choose to not be an unpaid member of Costco's loss prevention department.

Slightly different issue than the TSA name game..

Neutron Star Oct 27, 2012 12:47 pm


Originally Posted by UshuaiaHammerfest (Post 19575612)
I fly out of SFO a lot, but usually T2, and they do the same thing there. The only times I've pushed back on this demand I was threatened with "DYWFT," but that was a few years ago. I complained to a supervisor afterward and then was threatened with the "give me your boarding pass so we can document this" shake down.

While I agree with your point #2 above, the TSA's argument is that inconsistent security (or "unpredictable" as they call it) makes it harder to find the holes. I think in actuality annoying and inconveniencing the traveling public is all it accomplishes.

When you try your response at SFO, would be great if you'd follow up and post what happens. The name game bothers me but I've typically just found it more fun to read my name off my boarding pass in an obvious manner. I'd certainly love to have other options in case I get bored of that one.

I flew out of SFO T2 yesterday and as I'm going through the queue to TDC I hear her asking each passenger to state their name. When I approach the podium I hand her my Nexus card and BP and the following ensues:

Me: "are you getting pre-check here soon?"
TDC: "I'm not sure. We have CLEAR. Aren't they the same?"
Me: "No, with pre-check you keep your shoes on and laptop in the bag."
TDC: "oh. Have a nice flight."

No idea if it was on account of my Nexus card, or just being nice and conversational with the TDC, but no name game was played.

UshuaiaHammerfest Oct 27, 2012 1:40 pm


Originally Posted by Neutron Star (Post 19576117)
No idea if it was on account of my Nexus card, or just being nice and conversational with the TDC, but no name game was played.

There have been a few times where they haven't asked me, but I always assume they just forgot to ask, but I've never tried using a trusted traveler ID so maybe they automatically relax a little when they see one these days.

CDKing Oct 29, 2012 11:51 pm


Originally Posted by UshuaiaHammerfest (Post 19576313)
There have been a few times where they haven't asked me, but I always assume they just forgot to ask, but I've never tried using a trusted traveler ID so maybe they automatically relax a little when they see one these days.

I've had say your name at BOS right after showing my GE card and getting 3 beeps on the BP scan. At YUM on Saturday they were playing the game as well with everyone including me when showing GE card.

janetdoe Oct 30, 2012 10:06 am


Originally Posted by fiddlestickies (Post 19549912)
I said that in my experience 95% have been professional, and perhaps the reason for that is my attitude of not trying to make their lives difficult by not making a huge scene when they ask me my name...

I interact with or witness at least 10 TSOs every time I transit a checkpoint. 95% professionalism would still translate into experiencing or witnessing an unprofessional incident 50% of the time I transit a checkpoint. So I would guess that your 95% statistic is correct.


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 19549976)
When the TSA LTSO at DFW asked me to state my name and I politely pointed out that it was on both the boarding pass and ID. I further asked why he was asking that. Was that being a jerk? I think not. The jerk in that case was the DFW TSA LTSO who became so angry I thought he was about to strike me. Complaints to TSA at both DFW and HQ were never even responded to.

PM me if you want a direct contact for DFW.


Originally Posted by Penntraveler2001 (Post 19572101)
So, I think this is an interesting thread as a good friend of mine and frequent traveler often have this conversation. The agents at SFO ask for your name. It was explained to me that the agents are required to ask for the passenger's name as this is a requirement of the independent security company that manages the SFO gates (I only fly United out of SFO, so I don't know if the other terminals do the same). I have a number of issues with this.

It may certainly be a requirement that they ask. It is not a requirement that you answer. I went through SFO yesterday, and when the agent asked my name, I simply said, "I don't answer that question." She smiled and said, "Well I guess you know your name" squiggled on my BP and smiled and handed it back to me. ^


Originally Posted by UshuaiaHammerfest (Post 19576313)
There have been a few times where they haven't asked me, but I always assume they just forgot to ask, but I've never tried using a trusted traveler ID so maybe they automatically relax a little when they see one these days.

If they actually recognize a trusted traveler ID, that puts them a step up on most airports. :D

Boggie Dog Oct 30, 2012 10:41 am


Originally Posted by janetdoe (Post 19592277)


PM me if you want a direct contact for DFW.

Thanks for the offer. I communicated with the DFW FSD, AFSD, & CSR. None of these TSA government employees seem to think they have to answer to the public. TSA at DFW is the poster child for what is wrong with the entire agency.

bdschobel Oct 30, 2012 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by CDKing (Post 19590334)
I've had say your name at BOS right after showing my GE card and getting 3 beeps on the BP scan. At YUM on Saturday they were playing the game as well with everyone including me when showing GE card.

I had the same thing a while ago at LGA (Terminal D). The TSA guy said that if I didn't say my name, I couldn't use pre-check, even though I had cleared. I summoned a supervisor who overruled him.

Bruce

TheGolfWidow Oct 30, 2012 9:54 pm

I have always just said my name when asked. But I'm very curious to know how they handle situations involving people who are unable to hear and/or speak. So, next time, when I approach the podium, I may try to have the nerve to do this: Look directly at the screener's mouth. When I'm asked for my name, point to my ear and shake my head no. And then wait.

InkUnderNails Oct 31, 2012 5:07 am


Originally Posted by TheGolfWidow (Post 19595672)
I have always just said my name when asked. But I'm very curious to know how they handle situations involving people who are unable to hear and/or speak. So, next time, when I approach the podium, I may try to have the nerve to do this: Look directly at the screener's mouth. When I'm asked for my name, point to my ear and shake my head no. And then wait.

This really is a problem. I have variable hearing loss. It is a highly unusual medical condition caused partially by stress, so it happens with some regularity at the CP.

I have learned to cope partially by anticipation. There are questions that are expected and I readily discern them and answer them. Things like "What is a NEXUS?" at the TDC and "What kind of tools are these?" at the bag check.

Unanticipated questions are much more difficult. I was once asked to state my name, at least I thought later after some contemplation that this is what the question likely was. My answer in a nice tone was "I'm sorry, I do not understand what you are asking," and "I really do not hear very good, what are you asking again?" After four times the magic squiggle and a go.

They have no realization of the problems of the non-English speaker or the deaf. Some do not care and it is your problem for being different. Some are willing to make accommodation. Some just give up.

TheRoadie Oct 31, 2012 2:02 pm


Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 19596723)
Some do not care and it is your problem for being different. Some are willing to make accommodation. Some just give up.

Pretty much proof of it being a non-mandatory part of the SOP, if it isn't totally flowcharted out. Just a part of the performance that's allowed to be ad-libbed.

janetdoe Oct 31, 2012 10:41 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 19592482)
Thanks for the offer. I communicated with the DFW FSD, AFSD, & CSR. None of these TSA government employees seem to think they have to answer to the public. TSA at DFW is the poster child for what is wrong with the entire agency.

Not my experience - Although I use DFW most frequently, in general, I've had worse experiences at other airports, and I have found DFW complaints to be handled promptly and reasonably. But then my complaints have all been black-and-white procedure violations, rather than "bad attitude/reaction" or "unsettled/unadmitted" questions such as Am I required to play the name game? so I can understand that you may have had a totally different experience in the circumstances you mentioned.

andymo99 Oct 31, 2012 10:55 pm


Originally Posted by TheGolfWidow (Post 19595672)
I have always just said my name when asked. But I'm very curious to know how they handle situations involving people who are unable to hear and/or speak. So, next time, when I approach the podium, I may try to have the nerve to do this: Look directly at the screener's mouth. When I'm asked for my name, point to my ear and shake my head no. And then wait.

I've played this game in the past during the Q&A session that I refuse to take part in. I've just played deaf and pretended I was flustered by the questions. Eventually the agent gave up and let me through.


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